New Mast Cleat location

[Fire99]

Afternoon all,

I hope you're all enjoying a very sunny day (well it is in Essex )

I need to add an additional cleat to my mast for a spinnaker halyard. I currently a large-ish cleat on each side of the mast, one for the mainsail and the other for the jib, and s small cleat above, for the topping lift.

Having never added a cleat before, is there any guidance that I need to know on where to locate?

Any info is appreciated as ever.

Nick

 

[Fantasie 19]

Afternoon all,

I hope you're all enjoying a very sunny day (well it is in Essex )

I need to add an additional cleat to my mast for a spinnaker halyard. I currently a large-ish cleat on each side of the mast, one for the mainsail and the other for the jib, and s small cleat above, for the topping lift.

Having never added a cleat before, is there any guidance that I need to know on where to locate?

Any info is appreciated as ever.

Nick

I wouldn't add one.... just lead either the main and/or topping lift back to the cockpit, and then use one of the cleat(s) you've just freed up??

 

[sailorman]

Afternoon all,

I hope you're all enjoying a very sunny day (well it is in Essex )

I need to add an additional cleat to my mast for a spinnaker halyard. I currently a large-ish cleat on each side of the mast, one for the mainsail and the other for the jib, and s small cleat above, for the topping lift.

Having never added a cleat before, is there any guidance that I need to know on where to locate?

Any info is appreciated as ever.

Nick

threaded brass inserts with a suitable thread ti suit your machine screws

 

[Seajet]

Fire99,

as Fantasie19 says you can put a cleat almost anywhere, as long as it has good backing underneath / behind it; use Duralac anti-corrosion paste, available from chandlers, and pop rivets or stainless self tapper screws ( both of which require correctly sized holes ); it's handy to operate a spinnaker from the foredeck so a cleat on the mast within reach there would be handy.

Or did you mean a block / sheave ( pulley wheel ) at the upper end ? If so that needs to be above the forestay tang attachment.

 

[VicS]

Afternoon all,

I hope you're all enjoying a very sunny day (well it is in Essex )

I need to add an additional cleat to my mast for a spinnaker halyard. I currently a large-ish cleat on each side of the mast, one for the mainsail and the other for the jib, and s small cleat above, for the topping lift.

Having never added a cleat before, is there any guidance that I need to know on where to locate?

Any info is appreciated as ever.

Nick

2 identical cleats each side on my mast.

Decide where you want it. Above the jib halyard cleat seems sensible. Presumably the topping lift is on the same side as the main halyard,. Make sure there's nothing it will clash with.

Be sure wiring and internal halyards are clear before drilling.

Fasten in the same way as existing .. pop rivets ?

What are you doing for the pole control lines ?

 

[sailorman]

 

[srp]

threaded brass inserts with a suitable thread ti suit your machine screws

I wouldn't. Stainless inserts maybe, but brass is no good on a boat, and especially not near aluminium.

 

[Seajet]

I wouldn't. Stainless inserts maybe, but brass is no good on a boat, and especially not near aluminium.

+1 brass and alloy is bad news, but even stainless needs Duralac paste.

 

[TradewindSailor]

I second that! Brass and copper will destroy you mast in double quick time.

If you mast wall thickness is equal to or more than the diameter of the bolts, you can easily tap the aluminium and used normal 316 bolts. I wouldn't use self-tappers because the thread is too coarse and tends to work loose .... allowing salt to get into the joint, and rapid corrosion. Also self-tappers usually have a sharp point that will make sort work of the cables and ropes inside the mast.

Monel rivets are good; and, if large enough, marine quality aluminium.

 

[VicS]

I wouldn't. Stainless inserts maybe, but brass is no good on a boat, and especially not near aluminium.

My first reaction too but probably not as bad as stainless or even Monel (which is a copper nickel alloy)

 

[TradewindSailor]

Hi Vics.

Monel has been used for decades with no problems.

 

[Seajet]

Monel is indeed pretty inert and works well, but stainless and alloy are not good friends ( nowhere near as bad and brass or copper with alloy though ) so zinc chromate paste like Duralac should be used.

I have used monel rivets - and stainless self tappers - for decades including building a complete alloy mast and working on a lot of others, if one is sensible about pointy self tappers and the stuff inside the mast, no problem.

 

[Fire99]

Many thanks chaps... Yep it's the cleat to go on the mast. I've worked out the block location etc just the making holes in the mast bit is new to me

 

[VicS]

Many thanks chaps... Yep it's the cleat to go on the mast. I've worked out the block location etc just the making holes in the mast bit is new to me

I cropped a photo down to show my mast cleats and uploaded it to P bucket....... then forgot to add it to my post.

No useful purpose but here it is anyway

 

[VicS]

I wouldn't. Stainless inserts maybe, but brass is no good on a boat, and especially not near aluminium.

+1 brass and alloy is bad news, but even stainless needs Duralac paste.

I second that! Brass and copper will destroy you mast in double quick time.

If you mast wall thickness is equal to or more than the diameter of the bolts, you can easily tap the aluminium and used normal 316 bolts. I wouldn't use self-tappers because the thread is too coarse and tends to work loose .... allowing salt to get into the joint, and rapid corrosion. Also self-tappers usually have a sharp point that will make sort work of the cables and ropes inside the mast.

Monel rivets are good; and, if large enough, marine quality aluminium.

Hi Vics.

Monel has been used for decades with no problems.

Monel is indeed pretty inert and works well, but stainless and alloy are not good friends ( nowhere near as bad and brass or copper with alloy though ) so zinc chromate paste like Duralac should be used.

I have used monel rivets - and stainless self tappers - for decades including building a complete alloy mast and working on a lot of others, if one is sensible about pointy self tappers and the stuff inside the mast, no problem.

Potentials ( relative to a saturated calomel electrode) are:

aluminium alloys -0.8 to -1.0 volts

brass -0.3 to -0.4 volts

Monel approx -0.1 volts

active 316 stainless steel 0.0 to -0.1 volts

From the above it is clear that the greatest corrosion risk to aluminium is not from brass but from stainless steel, closely followed by Monel.

A barium chromate paste, such as Duralac, should be used in all three cases of course

 

[Seajet]

Potentials ( relative to a saturated calomel electrode) are:

aluminium alloys -0.8 to -1.0 volts

brass -0.3 to -0.4 volts

Monel approx -0.1 volts

active 316 stainless steel 0.0 to -0.1 volts

From the above it is clear that the greatest corrosion risk to aluminium is not from brass but from stainless steel, closely followed by Monel.

A barium chromate paste, such as Duralac, should be used in all three cases of course

I was also thinking from my time as a qualified engineer rather than chemist that brass is soft as **** too and stainless is by far the one to go for !

If cutting apertures in the mast, round off the corners of the holes with a round ' rat tail ' file, to avoid crack propagation.

 

[William_H]

From one with a little boat who flies a spin often... Spins often get out of control if the wind comes up. A safe and quick way to remove the spin is to grab the brace from under the boom. Release the sheet and halyard and pull the whole thing down into the cockpit. Very safe very easy although a bit of a mess when you want to hoist it again.
However this method relies on the halyard being released from the cockpit. Which means a turning block at the deck back to a cleat on aft end of cabin top. This requires that the spin be hoisted from the cockpit.
Many racing yachts I have been on have the spin halyard emerging from the mast side about 2.5 metres above the deck. There is a clutch just below the exit from the mast. The halyard then goes down to a turning block then to a cleat on cabin top. The foredeck crew man pulls the spin up in a very efficient way grasping the halyard above his head and pulling down through the closed clutch. Once the spin has settled down the halyard is pulled through and cleated at the cabin top. The clutch is then opened.
So spin is hoisted at the mast dropped from the cockpit. This allows the foredeck crew to concentrate on stowing the spin into or on the foredeck while other crew of helmsman release halyard.
Now I am not advocating you buy an expensive clutch but I do advocate taking halyard back to cockpit. If only for safety. good luck olewill

 

[TradewindSailor]

Potentials ( relative to a saturated calomel electrode) are:

aluminium alloys -0.8 to -1.0 volts

brass -0.3 to -0.4 volts

Monel approx -0.1 volts

active 316 stainless steel 0.0 to -0.1 volts

From the above it is clear that the greatest corrosion risk to aluminium is not from brass but from stainless steel, closely followed by Monel.

A barium chromate paste, such as Duralac, should be used in all three cases of course

It's not that simple. You can't just look at the Galvanic series and get the corrosion rates. Read Nigel Warren's book Metal Corrosion in Boats ... I don't know of a better one for a yachty .... 224 pages .... a riveting read.

The rate of corrosion is dependent on the current generated due to the potential difference. If the less noble material .. the aluminium ... quickly coats the rivet (monel) and that coating is rugged, the action is stifled.

It gets even more complicated with brass .... common zinc brasses: the zinc leaches out in seawater and the fitting crumbles away, but not true with admiralty brass, which is actually a bronze.

Monel rivets are safe with marine aluminium alloys. It has stood the test of time.

 

[Fire99]

Many thanks for the replies so far. (The discussion about galvanic corrosion is a bit beyond me to be honest, I'll use a well tried and tested route and stick with that.. )
It appears i've still yet to rig an uphaul and downhaul too so there could be a bit more jiggery pokery to do.

 

[John the kiwi]

From one with a little boat who flies a spin often... Spins often get out of control if the wind comes up. A safe and quick way to remove the spin is to grab the brace from under the boom. Release the sheet and halyard and pull the whole thing down into the cockpit. Very safe very easy although a bit of a mess when you want to hoist it again.
However this method relies on the halyard being released from the cockpit. Which means a turning block at the deck back to a cleat on aft end of cabin top. This requires that the spin be hoisted from the cockpit.
Many racing yachts I have been on have the spin halyard emerging from the mast side about 2.5 metres above the deck. There is a clutch just below the exit from the mast. The halyard then goes down to a turning block then to a cleat on cabin top. The foredeck crew man pulls the spin up in a very efficient way grasping the halyard above his head and pulling down through the closed clutch. Once the spin has settled down the halyard is pulled through and cleated at the cabin top. The clutch is then opened.
So spin is hoisted at the mast dropped from the cockpit. This allows the foredeck crew to concentrate on stowing the spin into or on the foredeck while other crew of helmsman release halyard.
Now I am not advocating you buy an expensive clutch but I do advocate taking halyard back to cockpit. If only for safety. good luck olewill

+1
Recent experience of ever freshening winds. Two up on my 26 ft TS. Started by being a cool spinnaker run, feet up in cockpit, life is so good. Wind kept freshening. Boat surfing at 10 knots plus. We recovered from first broach as we were now over powered. 2nd broach convinced my crew to take up lawn bowls - until we "blew" the spinnaker and all was calm.
To "blow" the spinnaker the procedure was to simply let go the Windward sheet. (VERY IMPORTANT that the pole is only clipped to the sheet, not the sail. )let the sheet go completely through the blocks and all. From the cockpit haul in leeward sheet and lower the halyard so that you gather the spinnaker in the lee of the main and stuff it down the main hatch.
Very quickly and without leaving the cockpit, the spinnaker is down and safe. Now the boat is under main alone and comparaitively calm and easy to control.
Now you can send crew forward to stow the pole, and then below to repack the spinnaker.
Given this and similar experiences, i would never cleat the spinnaker at the mast! Olewills clutch at the mast is OK and a common solution but you must remember to leave it open after hoisting and recleating in the cockpit.
What makes it all do- able of course is that a spinnaker halyard only has to be "up there", not winched down tight like a main or jib.......
cheers