New (majority) owners for Princess Yachts!

[jfm]

@jrudge you still aren’t getting it, there won’t be a 20% saving because the dealer has costs in the process which have to be covered by someone ie: the customer. It is even possible that the factory would be more expensive that an efficient dealer.

In terms of cost reimbursement I don’t know exactly how things work but there are definitely costs to the dealer, they don’t get life handed on a plate unfortunately.

It’s interesting that Fairline got a mention. I recall some years ago when someone decided that BA Peters weren’t needed and the factory could go it alone. Shortly later they went bankrupt. I’m minded to think of a certain politician who assured us we’d be £350m a week better off by leaving the EU. It turns out we’re actually £650m a week WORSE off…..

I'm inclined to agree with you Henry that boat dealers add value in a different and bigger way than new car dealers. And if boat dealers were abolished the builder would have to do a lot of the work that the dealer did - a configurator tool couldn't. Boat dealers manage the warranty process, take some warranty risk, are on the ground locally when clients are far away, and of course they commit to buy for stock so helping the builder's finances.

New cars are very different and indeed the last time I bought a car from a showroom was 2005. Since then every new car I have bought has been by email by a PA with the dealer delivering it to the house and taking the old one away, and even the 2nd hand hatchbacks for kids have been contactless Cazoo/Cinch jobs. I don't expect ever to visit a car showroom ever again. I don't think I'm any different from zillions of others. Completely different from boats, and this explains why (I think) new car dealers just get a handling fee not a 20% margin, and make their money from servicing and 2nd hand trading. (I think - you'll know better than me)

It's completely untrue that Fairline's failure at the time of 3i selling to Better Cap was a result of severing the BA Peters relationship (that severing was done on 3i's watch).

 

[PowerYachtBlog]

It's completely untrue that Fairline's failure at the time of 3i selling to Better Cap was a result of severing the BA Peters relationship (that severing was done on 3i's watch).

That severing with BA Peters was around 2005 possibly 2004. Fairline went down in 2015. How can anyone connect the two.

I would say that Fairline went down cause of the following:
1. poor product updates from 2010 till 2015
2. the problems and warranty issues of the modern electrical system as on the Squadron 55 and Targe 58 GT
3. warranty issues on the new Targa 50 series
4. the severing of Boats.co.uk in 2013 (the nail in the coffin) I heard at the time they where moving around fifty boats for Fairline (about half its production).

I am sure you know much more then I do...

 

[jfm]

I was referring to the Better Cap deal, as I said. That was 2010-2011 when 3i sold financially-struggling Fairline to a turnaround fund and its senior bankers (in a sort of debt for equity deal). Long before the 2015 events. But no matter - we are agreeing it was not connected with the BA Peters thing.

 

[benjenbav]

Albeit BA Peters administration was a separate instance that should make buyers think about the strength of covenant offered by their chosen dealer.

 

[jfm]

Indeed so.
Also jurisdiction matters. I could have bought my recent boat from UK dealer or French. I chose UK because, apart from the fact they are very nice folks, I'd rather be home turf/native language if anything went wrong. People should perhaps think about this when deciding whether to buy from their "country of residence" dealership or "country where they do their boating" (if they're different countries). Of course, if you think about which dealer might give better warranty you might get a different answer. Nothing's simple

 

[EricJ]

Indeed so.
Also jurisdiction matters. I could have bought my recent boat from UK dealer or French. I chose UK because, apart from the fact they are very nice folks, I'd rather be home turf/native language if anything went wrong. People should perhaps think about this when deciding whether to buy from their "country of residence" dealership or "country where they do their boating" (if they're different countries). Of course, if you think about which dealer might give better warranty you might get a different answer. Nothing's simple

I heard that some brands take care of this by sharing dealer margin, i.e Dutch person buying boat at Dutch dealer for use in Med. part of commission for Dutch dealer goes to med dealer for warranty and service.

 

[DavidJ]

I heard that some brands take care of this by sharing dealer margin, i.e Dutch person buying boat at Dutch dealer for use in Med. part of commission for Dutch dealer goes to med dealer for warranty and service.

I wonder how that works. You may (like me with a new boat some 20 years ago) not know where you are going to end up in the Med after buying in the UK. Could have been France, one of several areas in Spain or even Italy. It was simple for me then because Sealine owned most of the dealerships but the few issues I had were sorted out by local yards and the bill sent to Sealine UK who promptly paid with no questions (Good ‘ol Trevor)

 

[henryf]

I’m not sure if I’d be keen to be the dealer who has to sort out warranty work for their part of the commission. I’d rather be the one who just sells the boat and pockets their tickle

I suspect that dealers aren’t allowed to poach sales from a particular territory but if an owner chooses to move their boat away having taken delivery in the selling dealer’s territory then there’s not much anyone can do. How warranty work gets dealt with is a difficult one. The selling dealer will have their own technical team so should you expect them to pay retail elsewhere to deal with issues?

I guess the thing is to be honest from the outset. Some of the brands we looked at didn’t have formal representation in the UK and so would have to use third party suppliers anyway. As it was I valued ongoing support too much to go down that route.

@jfm makes a very valid point re: legal issues and where they are dealt with.

 

[MapisM]

How warranty work gets dealt with is a difficult one.
The selling dealer will have their own technical team so should you expect them to pay retail elsewhere to deal with issues?

Well, depending on where the boat is located, that might be the most sensible thing to do.

By sheer coincidence, I'm aware of how SL dealt with a warranty issue on a boat which was actually a used Ferretti, taken from SL as p/x and sold on with a 12m warranty (which is already remarkable per se, BTW).
This boat was in southern Sardinia, an area pretty far from boat dealers (of any brand, not just SL).
But they got in touch with a local yard, agreed the job to be done, and paid them directly.
I guess they possibly negotiated some sort of "trade" rather than retail price, also because the yard was somewhat interested to be appointed again for other work in the future.
But this is irrelevant for the owner, who was happy to have his problem sorted there and then, entirely FoC.
He went as far as telling that he would love to have an SL as his next boat for that reason alone - I kid you not!

 

[DAW]

Whenever you buy a new boat, you need to look carefully at who the contractual partner is (local dealer, parent company of the distributor, or the manufacturer) and read the detailed terms and conditions of the warranty document which should be attached to the purchase contract. The structure of the deal and the terms of the warranty can make a big difference when it comes to resolving problems.

Before buying my last boat, I looked at several options from different UK and EU based builders. In most cases, the contract offered was not with the local dealer/distributor I was dealing with, but with its parent company (often in a different jurisdiction), or in some cases directly with the manufacturer/builder.

Several of the warranties restricted liability for claims related to major equipment (e.g. engines, gearboxes, stabilisers, passerelle, etc.) to claims that would be accepted by the supplier/manufacturer of the equipment under the terms of its supply agreement with the builder, details of which are not customarily provided to you as an end-customer. Where these "back-to-back" arrangements exist, it can become difficult to persuade the dealer who sold the boat to touch systems which are effectively under warranty from another party.

 

[jfm]

Agree all that DAW, plus you can have jurisdictional issues too in any dispute. In addition to everything you say, as the end-customer you often get warranties from the equipment supplier, and these are a direct contracts twixt you and the maker (eg, a contract twixt you and Miele, for your ovens) - at least they are usually. These warranty contracts bypass the boat builder and dealer (and of course come with their own small print and exclusions etc).

Nothing's simple and my own view is that you should think harder about credit risk (re. the cash you will have paid out before you own the boat) than who will repair the stabilisers. Because the latter is granular and fixable at any boatyard, and will only ever be annoying as opposed to breaking your bank, whereas the former could involve more industrial scale damage to your financial position.

 

[henryf]

Wise words indeed. I wouldn't feel comfortable paying a small sub dealer based in a rented office in a marina somewhere who probably represents a load of different brands on the basis he (or She) has their brochures.

I will say for me a large part of the buying process was being able to ping over an email and have someone come and fix any problems. I don't mind paying for the privilege ie: buying new providing I get the privilege.

Interestingly on our previous P50 I had a charger fault a few years after purchase. Clearly it wasn't a warranty issue but Mastervolt were very fair and sold me a new let's say £1,000 charger for £2-300 on a goodwill basis. Fitting was a simple swap so free. It made me realise the importance of having good quality hardware in the boat from brands who value their reputation.

As a layman it's quite hard to determine the solidity of a brand or dealer. In the UK I can do a companies house check but I'm not sure it really tells you much. Would you have any advice for people looking to purchase ?