New lease of life for Ramsgit

Can somebody tell me why we actually need MORE ferries.
Currently all the ferries we have seem to be able to handle all the Ro Ro frieight that comes in & out of the country Ok. Apart from when there are storms ( Extra ferries would not operate then either) there are no significant backlogs, that i am aware of.
SOO unless we get a sudden increase in trade after Brexit ( Well yes I know Boris said we would but that will not happen until the pink pigs start flying at least!!!!) why do we need more ferries

as i see it the problem will be lorries having the correct paperwork. So surely if they stop the lorries at, say, a point like Manston ( or somewhere near other than the A2 etc) & check the papers there first, then when they get to Dover they just stamp them on the way through along with the ferry ticket. It is not as if anyone cares if they are smuggling illegal immigrants, redundant MEPs, or drugs OUT of the country.

When they get to Calais (or wherever) if there is a delay the ferry may be held up but having extra ferries will not help because they will not actually get into the port anyway, because they cannot unload the lorries, so sitting offshore will be no use.

If there is an issue with ferries coming in we can do spot checks & just wave the lorries through for a few months. The amount of lost revenue will be small in the grand scheme of things & smuggling will be limited for a while. That, incidentally is why i do not think that we need to have shortages of drugs etc for the NHS. We just wave the stuff through with no manual checks at the customs for a while or if a delay is recorded. Everybody thinks there will be a food shortage- why? just let it come in as usual, Or is that not possible???

So surely the real problem must be shoreside staff not ferries
Or have I got that totally wrong?
 
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I had assumed they want more ports so as to break down the queues that get created. For example someone heading to the Tunnel could get held up because of the longer paperwork because they are in a ten miles queue- and you can only process some many lorries every hour because there is no space to bring in more Customs Officers to check more lorries at the same time. Diffusing the queues to different locations might be the thinking. I am not sure diffused queues necessarily helps anything. But....
 
Daydream believer said:
Can somebody tell me why we actually need MORE ferries.
Currently all the ferries we have seem to be able to handle all the Ro Ro frieight that comes in & out of the country Ok. Apart from when there are storms ( Extra ferries would not operate then either) there are no significant backlogs, that i am aware of.
SOO unless we get a sudden increase in trade after Brexit ( Well yes I know Boris said we would but that will not happen until the pink pigs start flying at least!!!!) why do we need more ferries

as i see it the problem will be lorries having the correct paperwork. So surely if they stop the lorries at, say, a point like Manston ( or somewhere near other than the A2 etc) & check the papers there first, then when they get to Dover they just stamp them on the way through along with the ferry ticket. It is not as if anyone cares if they are smuggling illegal immigrants, redundant MEPs, or drugs OUT of the country.

When they get to Calais (or wherever) if there is a delay the ferry may be held up but having extra ferries will not help because they will not actually get into the port anyway, because they cannot unload the lorries, so sitting offshore will be no use.

If there is an issue with ferries coming in we can do spot checks & just wave the lorries through for a few months. The amount of lost revenue will be small in the grand scheme of things & smuggling will be limited for a while. That, incidentally is why i do not think that we need to have shortages of drugs etc for the NHS. We just wave the stuff through with no manual checks at the customs for a while or if a delay is recorded. Everybody thinks there will be a food shortage- why? just let it come in as usual, Or is that not possible???

So surely the real problem must be shoreside staff not ferries
Or have I got that totally wrong?
Click to expand...
I wonder, have you thought of becoming a Government advisor :o
 
gilesfordcrush said:
I would be very interested to know if an additional breakwater has reduced the swell in the harbour - does anyone have any experience of this?
Click to expand...

I don't know when this breakwater was extended but I was last in Ramsgate in April 2018 and the swell from a Southerly wind was enough to snap one of my bow lines. Fortunately I was on board and could immediately replace it.
 
Ramsgate outer harbour is a small area but Jetsed is a small vessel.Described as a suction dredger on AIS how does it actually work.It doesn't have much capacity (if any) to hold dredged material and it's not pictured working with a barge so is it actually blasting the sand into suspension ? and if so how is that carried out of the enclosed harbour ?
I'm sure it's efficient but how ?
There is often a larger dredger at Ramsgate so is this new vessel simply trimming the existing depth for movement of the larger ferry.
 
Daydream believer said:
Can somebody tell me why we actually need MORE ferries.
Currently all the ferries we have seem to be able to handle all the Ro Ro frieight that comes in & out of the country Ok. Apart from when there are storms ( Extra ferries would not operate then either) there are no significant backlogs, that i am aware of.
SOO unless we get a sudden increase in trade after Brexit ( Well yes I know Boris said we would but that will not happen until the pink pigs start flying at least!!!!) why do we need more ferries

as i see it the problem will be lorries having the correct paperwork. So surely if they stop the lorries at, say, a point like Manston ( or somewhere near other than the A2 etc) & check the papers there first, then when they get to Dover they just stamp them on the way through along with the ferry ticket. It is not as if anyone cares if they are smuggling illegal immigrants, redundant MEPs, or drugs OUT of the country.

When they get to Calais (or wherever) if there is a delay the ferry may be held up but having extra ferries will not help because they will not actually get into the port anyway, because they cannot unload the lorries, so sitting offshore will be no use.

If there is an issue with ferries coming in we can do spot checks & just wave the lorries through for a few months. The amount of lost revenue will be small in the grand scheme of things & smuggling will be limited for a while. That, incidentally is why i do not think that we need to have shortages of drugs etc for the NHS. We just wave the stuff through with no manual checks at the customs for a while or if a delay is recorded. Everybody thinks there will be a food shortage- why? just let it come in as usual, Or is that not possible???

So surely the real problem must be shoreside staff not ferries
Or have I got that totally wrong?
Click to expand...

Much is being made of the issues of goods movements which as you say is odd given the dynamics I suspect a lot of it is part of hard nosed negotiating. The UK has a trade deficit with the EU of £69 Billion against a surplus of £41 Billion with countries outside of the EU so it is clearly in the interest of EU countries to ensure there are not hold ups at ports as they will be affected more collectively. My business imports globally with goods arriving on Containers both from within and outside the EU and via Trucks on a similar basis.

Trucks from inside the EU due to harmonised VAT rates do not need to officially clear through customs although can be 'pulled' for checks. Goods from outside the EU have to have clearance but this can be done prior to the truck arriving if organised. Generally VAT has to be paid on entry unless like us and many like us you agree with HMRCE a VAT deferment account. This way all paper work is completed for VAT prior to arrival the information sent to HMRCE and the truck clears through seamlessly, VAT is paid at the end of the month. Many freight forwarders offer this facility to smaller importers and use their own VAT Deferment Account for a very modest charge

The key pinch point is Dover-Calais so I see Ramsgate being wound up as part of the UK saying 'we are prepared'. (you can argue if we are are are not). Container traffic does shipped to container ports (Felixstowe, Southampton, London Gateway, Liverpool etc) so does not come through the Dover-Calais pinch point in general and are cleared as goods outside the EU. Thousands of containers a week are cleared in this way so I can see no reason why these would be affected be they within or outside the EU.

Technology exists for paper work to be pre cleared for incoming trucks with number plate recognition (paperwork has to tie in with the vehicle reg etc currently) and auto clear. It works....... try getting across the Dartford Crossing without a charge, ditto for the Irish Border, the EU, UK Government and Irish Goverment have all said they have no intention of a hard border.

My business relies on 70% of its products coming into the UK so we have kept close to the issues and really can see no logical reasons for any issues between trading nations as long as the politicians keep out of using trade as a lever. In summary I am with you Daydream freight movements are balanced if you want to create a problem you can but there is no logical reason for there to be one.
 
bluerm166 said:
Ramsgate outer harbour is a small area but Jetsed is a small vessel.Described as a suction dredger on AIS how does it actually work.It doesn't have much capacity (if any) to hold dredged material and it's not pictured working with a barge so is it actually blasting the sand into suspension ? and if so how is that carried out of the enclosed harbour ?
I'm sure it's efficient but how ?
There is often a larger dredger at Ramsgate so is this new vessel simply trimming the existing depth for movement of the larger ferry.
Click to expand...

In the Orwell I believe that suction dredgers are used too. Something to do with eco concerns where the various beasties and fauna in the mud mustn’t be taken outside of the river where they live ‘cos of the different salinity etc. As a result I think they dredge on a falling tide and gradually move the stuff downstream that way.

Someone will be along in a mo to tell me I‘m talking cobblers
 
Thanks for the link to Vanoord.So yes it puts the sediment into suspension and obviously works - they kindly show ramsgate in their film - but its surprising that with such an enclosed area the current outside is sufficient to pull out the liquified material on the sea bed. Maybe the 'recessed' outer port gets a higher mud content than the sandbanks near the mouth and at the inner harbour entrance where they were using a dredger with a bucket last year.
Perhaps it moves like the 'sand waves' shown on the chart in places out in the Channel.
 
Other under-utilised ro-ro berths include Parkeston Quay, Felixstowe (used to be passenger as well) and Ipswich ( currently not used at all)
None of which require dredging to re-open.
 
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