New instruments opinions

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Minerva

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Reading the post asking for reviews for the Nasa Clipper Depth got me thinking; I've used Nasa Clipper wind, depth and speed for years - comfortably double digit years - and it's all just worked. On occasion I've bought a new paddle wheel for the speed sounder for, if I recall correctly £3 and new wind cups, (should mine ever fail) cost around £12.

If I were to buy a boat tomorrow which needed new instruments, I would by default be inclined to buy Nasa stuff again. However I appreciate this comes from a place of inexperience of the new stuff from Raymarine / B&G et al.

So, why would I want to spend 2x or 3x the cost of Nasa gear on stuff that would perform, in my ignorance, the same task as the previously discussed reliable, UK made kit? What benefits am I missing?
 
Doesn't this come down to the boat and its use ? With small / medium sized boats - often integration of gear is not considered. Boat like mine at 25ft ... really what do I want ?

Plotter
Depth
Speed
Compass.
VHF

The Depth and Speed often combined as you have .. and I have Echopilot Duo - like the Nasa just seems to keep going !

As we go up boat size or more modern - then I think more people look at integrated systems .... not only for results - but also the co-ordinated look !

Nasa does not really get into the comprehensive integrated package look ... but caters well for the more modest end of the market.
 
Funny enough .. when my Echopilot Dual Display threw a Hissy Fit ... I bought a Clipper Duet package complete ... which still sits in box ! My Duo just needed cleaning up cable connections and its been performing year after year as usual.

Only niggle - the Nasa speed log is different diameter and plug to the Echopilot.
 
As i just posted in another NASA thread;

If you want stand alone, basic wind/depth/speed etc then NASA do the job. They are relatively inexpensive and work well enough, although the masthead wind units are a bit short lived.

There are various reasons why one might want integration and if you do, then NASA can't do it. I have a single Garmin plotter on my flybridge. My transducers, on an N2K network, provide all the data i need to that one display. I can see wind, depth, speed, heading etc. The autopilot can be controlled from the same screen, steering to wind, waypoint or route, thanks to all of the data being on the network. All i need then on the lower helm is an inexpensive 10.4" Android tablet to mirror the plotter.

There is no one size fits all, it depends on what you want to see. Boat size is largely unimportant.
 
As already suggested the biggest draw of the 3 biggies now is the easy integration with a plotter, but it comes at a high cost and you really need to be sure you can use all the extra functions. I have the lot except for radar on my last boat and it all worked well, but for coastal cruising I used very little that could not be done with stand alone and a decent chart plotter. The best thing was the autopilot which could be controlled from the plotter and sail to wind.

With my latest installation. because I don't have wheel steering the easy engagement of autopilot is not possible (connecting the ram to the tiller every time before engaging) I have stick with NASA. However I did buy a Garmin plotter that has 0183 and will probably fit NASA wind as the tiller pilot will also take 0183.
 
The only integrated units I have are the NASA AIS feeding into my Garmin Chart plotter and the Garmin Chart plotter providing position for the GMDS VHF.
The Raymarine ST40 log, depth sounder, NASA wind speed/direction and Autohelm are all stand alone.
 
I can partly understand a single integrated display ought to be better on a smaller boat ... reducing the need for display heads and cut-outs, but in truth - do we need such .. as Tranona says - he rarely used all .. and with the later boat decided not to.

I cruise Baltic .. I cruised UK south coast ... TBH - I prefer basic info and Mk1 eyeballs scanning around rather than a screen. I've been on boats where 'owner' has spent longer making sure his 'electronics' were all sorted and co-ord'g than we took to actually get underway. When we were 'out there' he literally used very little of the info provided.

Don't get me wrong ... if I had a bigger better boat - I would most likely go for integrated gear ... but until then I can happily cruise around with my few bits ....
 
My last boat had NASA kit that worked brilliantly.

My current boat had 30 year old Stowe kit that was on its last legs, well the depth sounder worked. Then the Raytheon radar went pop!

With a Garmin plotter at the helm it was a no brainer, replace the Stowe kit and the radar with Garmin. All the data is at the helm and over the hatch where everybody can see it, or if I am solo I can sit tucked away from the wind.

Just wish whoever fitted the Raymarine autohelm had gone down the Garmin route so I could sail to wind angle. Perhaps a project one day.
 
We changed to an integrated set when we changed boats in 2000 from a basic Navico set on the Sadler. There are several advantages, perhaps the chief being the ability to display true wind, as well as controlling the illumination from a single display. I think it comes down to how much time you are spending aboard. If you are spending months rather than holiday weeks, you may later regret not going for the full set, even if it isn’t essential.
 
Thanks all, that’s been interesting.

On the radar front, does that need nmea 2k sensors feeding into the plotter to work? I’ll admit to not considering radar requirements before.
 
Minerva said:
Thanks all, that’s been interesting.

On the radar front, does that need nmea 2k sensors feeding into the plotter to work? I’ll admit to not considering radar requirements before.
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For the Garmin kit it has its own connector.

It should pick up the compass heading from the GPS signal.
 
Raymarine's i70 instruments are just beautiful, especially considering the red-orange night view, but require an N2k network.

To someone asking "are they worth 3x the price?" the answer is surely no, but I have desired them since the first time I saw them and by the time I'd done all the research the upgrade required I was already too emotionally invested to stop.
 
KompetentKrew said:
Raymarine's i70 instruments are just beautiful, especially considering the red-orange night view, but require an N2k network.

To someone asking "are they worth 3x the price?" the answer is surely no, but I have desired them since the first time I saw them and by the time I'd done all the research the upgrade required I was already too emotionally invested to stop.
Click to expand...
That's remarkably honest ?
 
I have raymarine right now St60 which work and I can't see me replacing them untill they don't!

When I do, I think the garmin ones will be high up the list, they offer the most flexibility with their displays and they look the most crisp.

With the wind instruments, I'm not sire they are really worth much unless the data is accurate, I wouldnt bother with the cheap ones, raymarine included, the data just isn't very good!

The garmin ones are a development of the nexus ones which were good in the day so I hope that trends continued!

The nasa depth and log do the job, personally I wouldn't bother with the wind a handheld ones just as good if you really need a number, but in a small boat you can feel if your over canvassed or not. I think wind data only becomes critical when your racing using sails with limited wind ranges or steering to wind using a pilot, but I have always found the performance of that feature poor with the crusing wind instruments. If mine goes wrong I won't replace it!
 
My boat arrived with a single very old B&G analogue speed display in the cockpit that wasn't wired to anything, a seafarer V depth sounder at the chart table along with a GPS head and a towed log that could be mounted under the spray hood with the cable and spinner obviously off the stern!
I didn't want to cut anymore holes in the cockpit/cabin bulkhead so a single instrument was what I needed. I went for Triton2 with wireless wind and DST800 and point 1 heading sensor. As the VHF was not DSC I wanted to upgrade that too so a V50 made everything B&G on a simple N2K network that I subsequently added AIS transponder to along with a wifi gateway.

It's everything a boy could wish for. The sail steer page is on most of the time unless I'm looking for AIS targets or filling in my log, I'm able to put waypoints in the VHF and feed them to the display and I spliced in my TP22 tiller pilot so I get the autopilot page and can steer to wind.

Simple network which gives me a system to rival most cruising yachts and doesn't change to classic look of the boat with dozens of manky grey instrument displays.

Of course it wasn't NASA money.
 
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