New genoa or a cruising chute?

Rivers & creeks

Rivers & creeks

Well-Known Member
Joined
23 Nov 2004
Messages
10,925
Location
Norfolk
Visit site
The genoa on the boat we're buying is 1991 and although perfectly servicable and still a bit 'crinkly' is definately past it's best. It's a cat (Heavenly Twins) so has a large genoa with a relatively small main. The question is, as we can only afford one, should we replace the genoa or buy a cruising chute? I've never used a chute before - how much do they add to performance? Our sailing is either coastal day sailing or trips accross the channel and up the French/Belgian/Dutch coast where the main need is to get as far along the coast each day as possible.

Thanks!
 
Hi
If your genoa is in the region of 14 years old, I would regard it as prudent seamanship to replace that, and save up and buy a proper spinnaker, a much better sail for downwind.
regards
graham
 
[ QUOTE ]
So if the genny breaks how you going to get home,wait for a tail wind or motor like bu--rery ?

[/ QUOTE ] It's not that bad a genoa - I wouldn't go sailing with one I thought likely to rip! Is 14 years old really that old?
 
I would have thought that since your head sail is a relatively large sail, a cruising chute would not add a significant amount of speed. In addition to this I have personally found that a CC has a relatively narrow range of angles where it works well. I would have thought that a new head sail will improve the most difficult aspect of sailing - going to windward, and that a suitable symetric spinnaker will fill in all the wind directions "behind the beam". They are in reality no more difficult to use than a CC - especially if you are cruising as you have plent of time to hoist and drop the sail - a snuffer can work well.

Regards, Jeff.
 
But completely different concepts....

A cruising chute is an 'apparent wind' sail, and on any downwind work other than dead downwind (or close to), will be considerably faster than a spinnaker...

Horses for courses...

I guess that the answer is in you deciding what point of sail you are likely to experience the most...

if its upwind, buy a new genny
if its downwind, buy a spinnaker
if its reaching, then buy a gennaker (cruising chute)


PS... in my experience, many people think that a CC isn't any better than a spinnaker as they are using them incorrectly..... you need to sail them higher than you think to get boat speed up, and then the higher apparent wind speec will allow you to free off and sail deeper and faster than a spinnaker would allow you to... (with the exception of dead downwind where a spinnaker will always outperform a CC) it also benefits enormously from getting the tack as far forward as possible, hence bowsprits, as this serves to bring the apparent wind forward and hence allow you to sail deeper, faster....
 
i'd buy an asymetric spi, flat cut and put it on a furler, fly off the windward hull ?

i can send you a pic of mine if you like

great for reaching, you should do more of this with a cat than pure down wind

you will need back stays to the top of the mast or runners if you fly it off the mast head, best for max speed of course.

Simon
 
[ QUOTE ]
I guess that the answer is in you deciding what point of sail you are likely to experience the most...

if its upwind, buy a new genny
if its downwind, buy a spinnaker
if its reaching, then buy a gennaker (cruising chute)

[/ QUOTE ]
It's East Coat sailing mostly, so not much of it is ever in straight lines. I've run goose winged once in the last 12 months for more than 10 minutes. So mostly it's varieties of reaching and windward, with frequent changes of direction. If that helps!
 
I'd go for a new genny.
Most chutes risk being ripped at F5 or above, when lots of gennys are being reefed.
Not many chutes can be roller reefed, and even if they can, the fabric is still lightweight and therefore still vulnerable if the wind gets gusty.
When you find you need to beat to shelter a bit quick you'll be glad of a genny.
 
Yep,

I'd go with simonfraser97 on this one.... if you aren't sailing dead downwind much, an assymetric makes far more sense... easier to handle, less risky to fly, better potential top end speed... and as simon points out, can be stuck on a furler if neccessary.... although don't know if i'd bother with that unless I was doing a lot of sailing.. eg clearing off for 6 months....

a nice flat cut one will sail quite high, without collapsing and still provide forward drive, and yet can also act like a giant genny for downwind work, albeit slightly less effectively than a spinnaker...

Also has the benefit of avoiding the not insignificant cost of a pole and gear for a spinnaker....

I think you'd find that 'tacking' downwind in a cat by broad reaching with a CC is probably quicker than sailing dead downwind....
 
No expert, but from my limited experience:

On the Sunfast 20 I crew to race, the CC is like a supercharger - the boat just takes off like a scalded cat. BUT I have to play the sheet constantly if the wind's at all variable or gusty, and in stronger winds, it's more like a scalded tiger - it bites!. It's also difficult on a dead run. We've got away with it goosewinged in light winds, but it's not ideal.

On my Snapdragon, on a run I goosewing the genoa on a pole and the main on a tight preventer. In light winds this is stable enough for the autopilot to cope and surpisingly quick. Much bigger boats often struggle to pass me without a spinnaker and that setup's good for maybe 20 degrees either side of a dead run, though if you go too far by the lee on either side it can get very messy - not recommended in a tight channel!

I'll stick my neck out and suggest that an HT is never going to be the closest winded boat in the fleet, and I reckon close hauled is where you'll get the most benefit from the new genny. Once the wind gets aft, a piece of hardboard would do as well! A tired genny means you'll be using the donk a bit more when the wind's in the wrong direction, while a CC is fun, but inclined to be a handful. It's filled our cockpit once or twice on the Sunfast. On some cats, that would be a worry, but I suspect the HC would just skitter off sideways when over pressed.

I think on balance, unless, in the meantime, the sail fund will find itself diverted to some worthy, but boring cause like a new 3-piece suite /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif, I'd be inclined to wait and see if the genoa is really serviceable and, if so, go for the chute. If it turns out to be completely knackered, the choice is obvious.
 
Thanks guys, I had been thinking a CC, but reading what you've said it seems that as the genoa on an HT does such a big proportion of the work it's best to get that absolutely right.
 
I bought a 145% genny from kemps a couple of years ago, the boats change was amazing (Heavenly Twinge). A tight sail meant I could point her closer. I have not yet fitted a foam luff, jury still out as the forestay sag on the HT in strong winds, even when the genny is rolled right up is pretty bad, if you are buying a 91 then she will not have the bridle and may be much better!

Goose winging a 145% genny and my new 3/4 batten main has been very successful. I have a 3 1/2 m pole (oooer) which is invaluable. I have a spinny which I bought on here, still not rigged the boat to take it yet, looking for some descent literature, all the books concentrate on flying the spinny, not actually rigging the boat!

Only downside is 145% sail is a lot of cloth to pull through the baby stay letter box gap, in lighter airs I have started removing the baby stay which makes life so much easier.

I would definitely recommend the genoa first from experience of sailing with an old 15 years but not too bad sail to fitting the new sail! My old sails, including a few smaller jibs have become my winter sails, and occasionally flying twin genoas to create a heavier spinny!
 
Hmm ... its probably an issue with my sail and the boat. The CC is cut a little fuller that I now realise I need, and there isn't really enough distance between the tack for the CC and the Genoa. It also has something to do with the speed of the boat as well .. boats which are faster get more apparent wind - and end up sailing with the wind further forward more often. Aeolus isn't fast enough to make this such a significant factor.

As far as the question was concerned, my thinking is that the very large number 1 head sail will work very well probably to the point where the apparent wind is nearly on the beam - from there a traditional spinnaker with pole can follow the apparent wind as it moves behind the beam.

If money were no object I'd personally have a fairly flat cut asymetric spinnaker and a new symetric spinnaker - between them they would cover wind from probably 60 degrees off the bow to on the stern. Leaving the head sail with only the beating and fetching aspects of sailing.

2p
Regards, Jeff.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top