New-gen autopilots. Any good ones?

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dom

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I'm no great fan of fancy electronics, but what I do value is a decent AP (mostly sail with just me and missus) and my current system no longer cuts the mustard when the wind gets up.

My background is racing and there is much sales nonsense put about by the big manufacturers (B&G, Garmin, Raymarine, etc), all carefully designed to sell pointless gizmos to cruising folk. The advent of the so-called gyropilots has turned into Bulls*it Central!

NKE is the exception: it's a superb piece if kit, expensive (more so when one discovers that much of the functionality is pay-to-open). But these guys really know how to make their gyro-processor sing and it's simply beautiful - though overkill for a cruising boat, at least for the sailing I do. B&G also make some good gear (under Hercules banner), but it's also expensive and a bit of a hanger queen to be honest.

That said B&G have recently launched a new gyro-compass which integrates into their much cheaper Triton system and I was wondering if B&G can really cut the mustard at this price point. Raymarine have introduced their new gyro "ev" system but I don't know anyone with one and can find no reviews on-line.

Anyhow, I'm thinking of taking a Boat Show leap and having a crack at the new B&G gear. Just wondering if anybody has sailed with it, or could recommend another comparable/better AP?
 
Cannot comment about the latest B&G autopilots, but after a season using a Raymarine SPX-10 system I have been very pleased and impressed with this. It is way better than me at steering, and copes perfectly with sailing in moderate waves with the asymmetric spinnaker up (cannot comment on ocean waves & gales as not been there, fortunately)
Transformationaly better than previous circa 2000 generation Raymarine pilot with wheel pilot
 
I find a Raymarine S3g linked to a hydraulic ram very capable for my boat and simple to use. I guess it depends on what your boat is and how much you need the auto pilot to do. I tend to point and go with mine.

Yoda
 
I've been looking hard at this issue for a year or so.
My issue is IOR shaped hull and quartering sea's plus tiller steering.
I'm going to import a new AP from the West coast of the states once the next batch has been made.
See PelagicAutopilot.com
I've been following the project very closely and so far it looks very good and superb value given the cost of B&G, Raymarine etc let alone the top systems from Jefa or NKE.
Once I've got one I'll be testing it thoroughly and if it works as well as the independent reports I've seen I may very well be tempted to buy a few and sell through the yard.
 
I've got an SPX-10, and it out-steers me, and copes with pretty-much anything. Did a transatlantic without any trouble.
 
I have a Raymarine Evolution wheel pilot. I'm very impressed with it, especially in difficult sea conditions when previously I had take over. Much better than the previous Raymarine 4000+
 
Dare I suggest that the manufacturer of the electronics is far less relevant to the performance than the decision to go with below deck ram steering direct to rudder, and the addition of a rudder reference unit.
Avoid wheel pilots at all cost
IMVHO
 
skyflyer said:
Dare I suggest that the manufacturer of the electronics is far less relevant to the performance than the decision to go with below deck ram steering direct to rudder, and the addition of a rudder reference unit.
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That's the first step, obviously, but I'm pretty sure that Dom's already reached that point. Once you have a decent mechanical drive, the quality of the electronics (or rather, the software running on them) can give a further improvement.

Pete
 
Many thanks for the replies and some very interesting points in there:

  1. The system Javelin recommends seems quite extraordinarily good value at $750 (c.£500) - it really shows the possibilities solid state gear has brought to the gyro-sensor world. It will be very interesting to see how that works out.
  2. Raymarine seems to get some very good feedback for their SPX (early gyro I think).
  3. Now "technically" speaking the latest new-generation rate-sensor gear should provide a good leap forward from this gear. However, a friend of mine told me last night (ex-Volvo sailor) that the this hope rests on the "technically" a bumblebee can't fly argument, i.e. that the pre-gyro gear should struggle. His point was that a giant leap forward was enabled a good few years back by faster processors and faster comms such as NMEA 2000 and improved proprietary networking systems. Armed with a decent fluxgate compass and an even primate rate-sensor this generation of APs worked great, as many you say
  4. The more recent introduction of fancier rate-sensors should enable another significant step forward. These should be able to say detect when say the stern is being lifted on a downwind broad reach, simultaneously detect an increase in speed indicating a surf and also simultaneously factor in changes in the AWA/AWS and thereby get the helm up or down just the right amount before the boat starts to wander off course. It's complicated stuff that requires more than one rate sensor to really work and at some point knowledge of that particular boat's handling characteristics, the set of the sails and even the positioning of any foils (not applicable to most of us!). The Holy Grail it would seem is to design AP software that can correctly interpret all of this and then sail the boat up to the standard of a top helmsman. This is basically possible at the top end, but still work in progress in the £1-2K bracket for an AP software/rate-sensor/compass package.
  5. The point about direct drives being better - fully agree
  6. Final point - it is apparently really important to check that rudder bearings are sweet, as a rudder which tends to load up due to boat-heal induced bearing stiffness creates another unwelcome layer of confusion for the AP
 
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The advances in the development and manufacture of solid state and micro machined sensors has made great advances in things like autopilots possible at affordable prices possible. One of the big driving forces for this was the automotive market where such sensors were wanted for the likes of active suspension. The likes of mobile phones and tablet computers have driven minimal cost manufacturing and assembly down to levels where they can impact on relatively low volume gear like the marine market. As for the value of gyros for autopilots, the less turning momentum you allow the boat to develop before you correct should allow less rudder angle to be used to correct and this will allow the boat to go faster. Whilst the few percent extra speed may not have that much value for the sedate cruiser the gyro will still make course keeping more reliable, and comfortable
 
My new boat came with a Garmin GHP12 autopilot system. Although it doesn't shout about it, this has a rate gyro sensor. I have a Jefa linear drive, acting directly on the rudder shaft. It's an excellent system, and seems to work very well indeed. I'm not sure what benefit would be gained by going to the expense of NKE kit.
 
I'd always thought the principle benefit of gyros was for enhancing MARPA but with the AIS becoming so ubiquitous that may be of less important these days.

In the last ten years or so I have had experience of two Raymarine and one B&G offering all connected to the rudder stock and they have performed their roles commendably
 
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Little Grebe said:
I'd always thought the principle benefit of gyros was for enhancing MARPA
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At least in the traditional light-grey Raymarine world, the gyro comes on board as part of the autopilot and the fact that its presence on the Seatalk bus also improves MARPA performance is just an added bonus.

(I don't know what it's like with a gyro, but Ariam doesn't have one and the C80's MARPA is completely bloody useless :) )

Pete
 
GrahamD said:
I have a Raymarine Evolution wheel pilot. I'm very impressed with it, especially in difficult sea conditions when previously I had take over. Much better than the previous Raymarine 4000+
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Is the wheel drive identical to the grey-case-silver-motor-black clutch-lever 4000 Mk II drive? I have this with the ST6001 control, and I feel the weak point is the wheel drive, which just can't respond fast enough in a quartering sea. It also has repeated clutch problems if used much.

I've looked at the Raymarine web site and the photos and fitting instructions for the EVO wheel drive show something that looks identical to the old 4000 Mk II.
 
jwilson said:
I've looked at the Raymarine web site and the photos and fitting instructions for the EVO wheel drive show something that looks identical to the old 4000 Mk II.
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As far as I know, all the Raymarine drive units have remained the same for many years, if not several decades.

I'm very happy with my new-old-stock Type 1 electric ram, even though it's old enough to have the Autohelm logo rather than Raymarine (but otherwise identical to ones sold today AFAIK). The wheelpilot it replaced (fitted by previous owner) was a nasty rattly heath-robinson lashup that lacked both speed and power, and needed a lanyard to hold the clutch lever in position (a common fault). I would never fit one of these myself.

Pete
 
jonic said:
Fitted this last spring to our 36ft sailing yacht.

http://hudsonmarine.co.uk/index.php?module_display=41&pid=154126&gclid=CLDur-LYl8oCFSQYwwodP3kEIg

No complaints at all and the set up was ridiculously easy.
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Interesting, as a matter of interest have you tested this thing in a bit of a blow?

The reason I ask is this: sailing only two up we often make impromptu decisions according to the winds. For example we might set sail from the Solent bound for Alderney and then if the wind is right alter that to Camaret to get this often painful uphill leg out of the way, that kind of thing. My better half is fine on watch, but not really happy adjusting the sails on her own at night, so steering a compass course does not really work The best way for me to get a quick kip is to have an AP which can sail a rock steady course to the wind (aside from a dead run) with an instruction to call me if the course changes by more than say 15 or 20 degrees. The last ounce of speed is of no relevance, but confidence is everything. I imagine many of us on here face the same dilemma. .
 
dom said:
Interesting, as a matter of interest have you tested this thing in a bit of a blow?

The reason I ask is this: sailing only two up we often make impromptu decisions according to the winds. For example we might set sail from the Solent bound for Alderney and then if the wind is right alter that to Camaret to get this often painful uphill leg out of the way, that kind of thing. My better half is fine on watch, but not really happy adjusting the sails on her own at night, so steering a compass course does not really work The best way for me to get a quick kip is to have an AP which can sail a rock steady course to the wind (aside from a dead run) with an instruction to call me if the course changes by more than say 15 or 20 degrees. The last ounce of speed is of no relevance, but confidence is everything. I imagine many of us on here face the same dilemma. .
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Maybe I've misunderstood your question, but virtually all current autopilots will steer a decent course relative to the wind, as long as the wind data exists on the network. Just how steady the course is will depend to some extent on sail trim and boat characteristics.
 
pvb said:
Maybe I've misunderstood your question, but virtually all current autopilots will steer a decent course relative to the wind, as long as the wind data exists on the network.
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Indeed - and the Raymarine ones (and probably the others) will alarm if the wind (and thus your course) changes more than a certain amount.

Pete
 
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