New Fairline targa 53 gt

[Portofino]

Yeh that’s the one in La Nap right now .
Sorry 50 not 53 .
What you can see with the vid is cramped cockpit sitting and phaff with bolsters I mentioned ^^^ and limetd outside space .

What you can’t see is the shear height at the dock , the gunwhale level .

Bow high ride is predictable and folks just accept it theses days .
Sounds underpowered .
It’s a pity it’s not got a pair of 900 or 1000 Hp MAN s as an option to cruise at around 30 knots like a Riva 52 .
Or better some arnies like a Pershing 50 to cruise @ around 40 knots .
The Pershing comes with shafts as std , but nice to have a choice if it reckons to be sporty .

The IPS boats like Absolute 50 ,s etc are slow btw too .
There are lots in La Nap as Fr dealer for Abs is there too .
Cruise is never more than 22/24 knots .I don,t think the D6 IPS guys like to go over 3200 rpm it seems .
I asked my mate the other day if he could do 3400 in a cruise in Co as his 3200 is only 22 knots in his Porto 47 IPS .
My turbos are just starting to spool up at 1450 rpm / 22/23 knots , it’s not right for me too low .
He did for a bit then radioed ( channel 77 ) for me to loose the rpm on my boat ,back down as his L / h rocketed .
Max he made for a min or two was 26/27 knots WOT with a seasons fouling etc before an alarm went off , “oil pressure “ .

So I am not a big fan of just enough Hp in large hulls .

I think the FL 63 GTO falls into that camp as well as well as the Priny V53/56 , all need more Hp to compete with the Italian equivalent.
All imho .

 

[Whitelighter]

I like 17-18knts - very composed, quiet. I did push her to 27knts once, but my nose started to bleed.
8 knots also very pleasant if it’s flat. Might have to buy a gyro...

 

[PowerYachtBlog]

Yeh that’s the one in La Nap right now .
Sorry 50 not 53 .
What you can see with the vid is cramped cockpit sitting and phaff with bolsters I mentioned ^^^ and limetd outside space .

What you can’t see is the shear height at the dock , the gunwhale level .

Bow high ride is predictable and folks just accept it theses days .
Sounds underpowered .
It’s a pity it’s not got a pair of 900 or 1000 Hp MAN s as an option to cruise at around 30 knots like a Riva 52 .
Or better some arnies like a Pershing 50 to cruise @ around 40 knots .
The Pershing comes with shafts as std , but nice to have a choice if it reckons to be sporty .

The IPS boats like Absolute 50 ,s etc are slow btw too .
There are lots in La Nap as Fr dealer for Abs is there too .
Cruise is never more than 22/24 knots .I don,t think the D6 IPS guys like to go over 3200 rpm it seems .
I asked my mate the other day if he could do 3400 in a cruise in Co as his 3200 is only 22 knots in his Porto 47 IPS .
My turbos are just starting to spool up at 1450 rpm / 22/23 knots , it’s not right for me too low .
He did for a bit then radioed ( channel 77 ) for me to loose the rpm on my boat ,back down as his L / h rocketed .
Max he made for a min or two was 26/27 knots WOT with a seasons fouling etc before an alarm went off , “oil pressure “ .

So I am not a big fan of just enough Hp in large hulls .

I think the FL 63 GTO falls into that camp as well as well as the Priny V53/56 , all need more Hp to compete with the Italian equivalent.
All imho .

Pershing is 1.2 million EUROS with IPS900 and 1.4 million with SDs plus Vat. I am not sure I would say the 5x is my favorite design from them.
Yes Abs 50 is terribly under powered with IPS600 5.5 liter engines for 18 tons medium load.
They upgraded the 52 this year with some Evo version and now IPS800.

TBH MBY video does make look it riding low, though the noises in what looks two feet of waves is not nice. But may be she is hull one and two, so I can live with that.
But MBY videos do not say much. No minimum planning speed no tech details about if it needs trimming. I mean Bulleri is ten times more detailed in his videos.
All important nos that aver very important if you use the boat.
If Sunseeker steer away from making tunnels on there boats all would ride fairly ok.
While a bit more shaft angle looses a bit of power it helps you a lot to ride flat and low, and also plane at about 12/13 knots.

As for the cockpit I would have done less with the exterior dinette since it has one inside. and leave the sunpad alone, and some free space.

Problem is the today salesman are selling HP when in reality is all about CCs.
An old Cat 3208 V8 had ten liters of displacement and delivered 435hp, same as what does a D6 5.5 liter.

In the meantime boats are getting higher and heavier, and with flatter Vees all to help this madness of making as much gizmos as you can in fifteen seventeen meters.
HTs up top, and CC are getting smaller. We fit a gyro here and there bigger gennies, and less water line length so make a bathing platform with a terrace as big as a penthouse.

Those Volvos at 3200 rpm cruise will not go over 2000 hours in very good nick. It is too much rpms and stress for the engines to live a lot.
I would say at 2k rpm you will throw them away, have seen Yanmar who rev a lot with a similar life span.

 

[Portofino]

I like 17-18knts - very composed, quiet. I did push her to 27knts once, but my nose started to bleed.
8 knots also very pleasant if it’s flat. Might have to buy a gyro...

Sure and there’s room on the water for all .

Buy my point is aimed at the sports cruiser segment .The Italians seem to use 40 knots as the WOT yardstick and cruise around 30 with shafts .Some like Pershing , Baia and Otam offer Arnesons at around 50ft certainly 60 ft ( FL 63 GTO territory)
Moving the bar higher .

It’s just Sunseeker has a bigger history of fast sports cruisers in the past always beating FL and Priny .
So re inventing / updating the “ Preditor “ name with a 50 powered by a pair of VP 8 L 600, Hp seems a bit tame .

Pershing launched the 5x with IPS but bigger cc than the Pred 50 , and Arnesons .

If you want a new apartment that floats from Sunseeker get a Hat 52 and use it the same as you pootle , slow cruise etc

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

They are getting taller all the time.

We saw two new Manhattan 53 this summer. They were like mini tower blocks.

Agreed. Mainstream power boats are getting taller and lighter and some of them are getting narrower as well. That and the fact that manufacturers are fitting lighter engines too does make me wonder how stable these boats are and whether manufacturers are compromising that stability for boat show wow accommodation. I noticed that in a recent test in MBY of one of the latest Princess flybridge boats, the journo was less than complimentary about its seakeeping. It is quite something for a MBY journo to criticise a boat from one of its biggest advertisers!

Ive been looking around at new and newish flybridge boats myself recently and I dont like what I'm seeing, especially for the kind of prices manufacturers are asking these days. I will be sticking with my low, wide and heavy Ferretti for the time being because of that

 

[petem]

Agreed. Mainstream power boats are getting taller and lighter and some of them are getting narrower as well. That and the fact that manufacturers are fitting lighter engines too does make me wonder how stable these boats are and whether manufacturers are compromising that stability for boat show wow accommodation. I noticed that in a recent test in MBY of one of the latest Princess flybridge boats, the journo was less than complimentary about its seakeeping. It is quite something for a MBY journo to criticise a boat from one of its biggest advertisers!

Ive been looking around at new and newish flybridge boats myself recently and I dont like what I'm seeing, especially for the kind of prices manufacturers are asking these days. I will be sticking with my low, wide and heavy Ferretti for the time being because of that

I'm intrigued by your beam comment Mike. My understanding is that boats (including FL) are getting wider to gain more accommodation space.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

I'm intrigued by your beam comment Mike. My understanding is that boats (including FL) are getting wider to gain more accommodation space.

They're certainly getting taller but I'm not sure they're getting wider. To be honest I was specifically referring mainly to Ferretti boats which used to be one of the beamiest and heaviest boats on the market, but also a couple of others. The dealer is trying to interest me in their new 670 to replace my 630. Firstly the 670 is only about 250mm longer than the 630 (so hardly the 4ft longer that the name indicates) but is 150mm narrower. Both the AZ66 and Princess 68 are also significantly narrower than the 630 and both are significantly lighter than the 630. To be fair to Princess, the 680 has the upgraded version of the same MAN V12 engines fitted in my F630 but the F670 and AZ66 have smaller, lighter engines albeit nearly as powerful

So I could sell my F630 and pay 3-4 times as much for a new boat that is barely any longer, is narrower, weighs less and has smaller engines. Oh yes and doesnt have internal flybridge steps

Apologies for the fred drift away from the 53GT but I was trying to make a relevant point

 

[Portofino]

They're certainly getting taller but I'm not sure they're getting wider. To be honest I was specifically referring mainly to Ferretti boats which used to be one of the beamiest and heaviest boats on the market, but also a couple of others. The dealer is trying to interest me in their new 670 to replace my 630. Firstly the 670 is only about 250mm longer than the 630 (so hardly the 4ft longer that the name indicates) but is 150mm narrower. Both the AZ66 and Princess 68 are also significantly narrower than the 630 and both are significantly lighter than the 630. To be fair to Princess, the 680 has the upgraded version of the same MAN V12 engines fitted in my F630 but the F670 and AZ66 have smaller, lighter engines albeit nearly as powerful

So I could sell my F630 and pay 3-4 times as much for a new boat that is barely any longer, is narrower, weighs less and has smaller engines. Oh yes and doesnt have internal flybridge steps

Apologies for the fred drift away from the 53GT but I was trying to make a relevant point

Yup I get the point .
We all know they are all compromises ( or where 10 y ago ) weight , beam , internal vol , FB size , engine size Hp location CoG etc but recently the whole seakeeping / hull performance/ boaty bit seems to have dropped to to bottom of the list at the initial “ brain storming “ event .
Nobodies grabbing the pen and walking up to the white board and scrolling “ deep V over 18 degrees “
Instead the board is littered with “ designer configurations “ of galley up , mid cabins ,huge FB overhangs in acreage to eclipse the rivals , fwd sitting areas , full standing everywhere.

Just why the Targa 53 is marked down ^^^^ because you can’t stand up fully ( if not a midget ) in the mid cabinis beyond me .You don,t spend much time conscious in there .
Folks at shows are looking down the wrong end of a telescope buying a boat on headroom or not over another .
As said earlier the SS pred 50 is huge height wise in the flesh ,sorry plastic , to get that int vol .
Yet it got weedy engines .
Should be called the SS whimp 50 not an evocative name like Preditor .
Don,t get we going on the FL 63 GTO , I mean “ GTO “ come on .

 

[jrudge]

They're certainly getting taller but I'm not sure they're getting wider. To be honest I was specifically referring mainly to Ferretti boats which used to be one of the beamiest and heaviest boats on the market, but also a couple of others. The dealer is trying to interest me in their new 670 to replace my 630. Firstly the 670 is only about 250mm longer than the 630 (so hardly the 4ft longer that the name indicates) but is 150mm narrower. Both the AZ66 and Princess 68 are also significantly narrower than the 630 and both are significantly lighter than the 630. To be fair to Princess, the 680 has the upgraded version of the same MAN V12 engines fitted in my F630 but the F670 and AZ66 have smaller, lighter engines albeit nearly as powerful

So I could sell my F630 and pay 3-4 times as much for a new boat that is barely any longer, is narrower, weighs less and has smaller engines. Oh yes and doesnt have internal flybridge steps

Apologies for the fred drift away from the 53GT but I was trying to make a relevant point

But think of the Air Con!

 

[jrudge]

Yup I get the point .
We all know they are all compromises ( or where 10 y ago ) weight , beam , internal vol , FB size , engine size Hp location CoG etc but recently the whole seakeeping / hull performance/ boaty bit seems to have dropped to to bottom of the list at the initial “ brain storming “ event .
Nobodies grabbing the pen and walking up to the white board and scrolling “ deep V over 18 degrees “
Instead the board is littered with “ designer configurations “ of galley up , mid cabins ,huge FB overhangs in acreage to eclipse the rivals , fwd sitting areas , full standing everywhere.

Just why the Targa 53 is marked down ^^^^ because you can’t stand up fully ( if not a midget ) in the mid cabinis beyond me .You don,t spend much time conscious in there .
Folks at shows are looking down the wrong end of a telescope buying a boat on headroom or not over another .
As said earlier the SS pred 50 is huge height wise in the flesh ,sorry plastic , to get that int vol .
Yet it got weedy engines .
Should be called the SS whimp 50 not an evocative name like Preditor .
Don,t get we going on the FL 63 GTO , I mean “ GTO “ come on .

Remember you never really get to find out until you have bought it. If you get a test drive it will be short and in good weather.

If a magazine writes a review then they will say that we we going along in a force ( insert stupid number) with waves of ( insert other stupid number) and the hull felt fantastic and the gin and tonic did not spill - so they are either deluded, or conscious that their ever thinner magazine is supported by the manufactures advertising.

As a buyer sea keeping is to most a given. I only really notice after some time when going along in moderately unpleasant weather ( which to be fair doe not happen that often) that the S58 is actually very stable and does not come close to slamming ( or even shuddering for that matter). By contrast by Endurance 33 would SLAM ( buy would it slam) on anything over a force 3.

So unless it has a simply terrible reputation then for most people space will sell. I would not drop £1m on a boat I could not stand up in the mid cabin!

There are two trends I do find troubling ( and obvious).

a. black hulls - why? the solar gain is staggering leading to more AC and GRP that in most cases you cant touch

b. huge huge windows. Same - staggering solar gain. I keep the blinds ( venetian) down most of the time to keep sun out, and in a marina to give privacy

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Just why the Targa 53 is marked down ^^^^ because you can’t stand up fully ( if not a midget ) in the mid cabinis beyond me .You don,t spend much time conscious in there ..

Because it sells. What was the first thing that even this forum focussed on when the 50GT was introduced? Headroom in the master cabin, thats what! My SWMBO has been boating with me for nigh on 30yrs and I can tell you without a shadow of doubt that she hasn't got a clue what hull deadrise is or COG or anything to do with stability. What she cares about is being able to swing a cat in the cabins and saloon and where the galley is located. And since the SWMBO usually has an equal influence on what boat the husband buys, no wonder that boat manufacturers have to consider what SWMBO thinks about their products too!

Another factor of course also is markets outside Europe, particularly the Asian market. Buyers there dont care about deadrise. They just want the biggest, blingiest boat they can buy to show off to their friends and family. And who are we to say that they are wrong?

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

But think of the Air Con!

Indeed think of the aircon. I dont believe I've ever seen a boat test which even mentions the performance of the aircon system. Always a load of rubbish about how the steering feels and never anything on how cool it gets in the saloon

 

[Portofino]

Because it sells. What was the first thing that even this forum focussed on when the 50GT was introduced? Headroom in the master cabin, thats what! My SWMBO has been boating with me for nigh on 30yrs and I can tell you without a shadow of doubt that she hasn't got a clue what hull deadrise is or COG or anything to do with stability. What she cares about is being able to swing a cat in the cabins and saloon and where the galley is located. And since the SWMBO usually has an equal influence on what boat the husband buys, no wonder that boat manufacturers have to consider what SWMBO thinks about their products too!

Another factor of course also is markets outside Europe, particularly the Asian market. Buyers there dont care about deadrise. They just want the biggest, blingiest boat they can buy to show off to their friends and family. And who are we to say that they are wrong?

Agree top of the white board has to be the expected sales Vol followed by a bean counters contribution the margin / unit .
So what ever we will make ,it “has sell comes 1st “and of course that what folks see ,feel , touch etc right in front of them inc SWIMBO .

Yup lost count of how many sales opportunity’s have been screwed up by my wife pulling a face .

All that’s missing here in this 50 ftr is a black hull It’s even got IPS probably bean counter approved ,but fits perfectly with the newbie can,t drive perceived problem .
View attachment 73018

They are selling btw - dealer is in La Nap been handing over at least 1/ month this season .
There’s two near me .Both sprawling French families with teen kids each has a jet ski on the BP .

Oh try Aircon ing that as it is :sleeping:

 

[MapisM]

b. huge huge windows. Same - staggering solar gain. I keep the blinds ( venetian) down most of the time to keep sun out, and in a marina to give privacy

Yup, and even before that, came the trend of glued on rather than framed windows - which is all well and good, for saving manufacturing time/costs, getting also a sleeker external appearance in the process.
But boatbuilders stretched what they learned from automotive a notch too far, and applied it to ALL glasses, with the result that you must use a/c also when just a bit of fresh air would do, because you can't open the side windows of the greenhouse... :ambivalence:

 

[MapisM]

They just want the biggest, blingiest boat they can buy to show off to their friends and family.
And who are we to say that they are wrong?

I have it on good authority that another critical factor is an oversized stereo/karaoke equipment, because that's what most Asians use boats for - and they very rarely leave the dock, if ever.
But you are right, who are we to say that they are wrong...?

 

[MapisM]

They're certainly getting taller but I'm not sure they're getting wider.

Agreed.
And behind the actual declared beam, there's another subtle trend which you can't spot from the specs sheet, but allows builders to sell more internal spaces for any given hull size.
That's self-explained by the following comparison pic, which I already posted in the past...

 

[Portofino]

Hull ballooning up from the chine .
View attachment 73026

 

[PowerYachtBlog]

a. black hulls - why? the solar gain is staggering leading to more AC and GRP that in most cases you cant touch

Black hulls for the most part is an option. So it is something personal more then anything else. So I can live with that TBH
In the end the popular used navy blue has a very similar solar heat impact.
Dark hull colors come with a cost of a repaint and or re-wrap every five seasons more or less.
I do not know how many salesman actually clarify on that.

MIke I like what they did with the foredeck of the Ferretti 670. So and so the interior wood style (possible Nordic dark and cold???).
Central galley, I will take yours any day which was fantastic.
Looking running quite good in the Bulleri test, but then so does yours.
The hardtop of the 670 is best in class in similar sized yachts. Does not look bulky at all. On the other Azimut, Princess etc its damn ugly.

It will be interesting to see how the Ferretti Salvetti line will evolve. 27 years of Zuccon is not a joke.

I think of the new interior styles I really like the modern very roundish and also a bit spacy Azimut is using (S7, new 60, 55 etc).

Portofino, if you want to buy a very good fast planning sea boat it is ending that today you need to buy a Sportfishing machine (Viking, Hatteras etc).
Or till they are alive some of the names left of the small Italian builders.
I like what these guys are doing atm http://www.nuovatuccoli.it/

We are at the fruit. Paolo will understand this

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Agreed.
And behind the actual declared beam, there's another subtle trend which you can't spot from the specs sheet, but allows builders to sell more internal spaces for any given hull size.]

Yup that is correct. Less hull wetted area, less power needed to drive it. Never mind if it rolls a bit. Sell them a gyro

 

[ROW]

Because it sells. What was the first thing that even this forum focussed on when the 50GT was introduced? Headroom in the master cabin, thats what! My SWMBO has been boating with me for nigh on 30yrs and I can tell you without a shadow of doubt that she hasn't got a clue what hull deadrise is or COG or anything to do with stability. What she cares about is being able to swing a cat in the cabins and saloon and where the galley is located. And since the SWMBO usually has an equal influence on what boat the husband buys, no wonder that boat manufacturers have to consider what SWMBO thinks about their products too!

Another factor of course also is markets outside Europe, particularly the Asian market. Buyers there dont care about deadrise. They just want the biggest, blingiest boat they can buy to show off to their friends and family. And who are we to say that they are wrong?

That is absolutely true but SWMBO will soon force a sale if the boat is too uncomfortable at sea or anchor, so whilst the manufacturer makes a sale, they don't get any repeat business........or maybe their answer is just a bigger one next time.....