petem
Well-Known Member
Precisely and that's what I've been saying throughout this thread. As for VFM, even if you have a €million villa, cost may be less of an issue but even multi millionaires still want VFM.
New Fairline F//LINE
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Precisely and that's what I've been saying throughout this thread. As for VFM, even if you have a €million villa, cost may be less of an issue but even multi millionaires still want VFM.
MapisM
Well-Known Member
Interesting interpretation, but "nautical vision" (for lack of better wording) isn't the first attribute I'd use to describe the strengths of current Ferretti management.
The reason behind Wally acquisition has much more to see with the HUGE difference between the perceived brand value and the actual cost of the transaction, which was (relatively speaking) peanuts. It's that simple.
That said, of course there is a market for Wally tenders and the likes, as well as there was for Aquaramas in the 60s.
If there's a merit that has to be recognised to my uni fellow Bassani, it's to have created from scratch a brand whose image is appealing enough to be worth Ferretti attention.
To do that, he used a fair chunk of the fortune gathered selling the company founded by his father, but... Hey-ho!
Anyway, if the R37, H38 and Fline are aiming at the market niche which Wally invented and still holds, imho that's a clear cut case of wishful thinking.
Time will tell, as always...
Portofino
Well-Known Member
Times have and are always changing , this new sector has a lot of headroom for growth. So needs more players to enter to feed the appetite .
Wally sales will grow too , won’t be effected by the UK 3 .
I guess a parallel growth in 2nd holiday home purchases from affluent folks in the usual suspect places in the Med is taking place ?
They want a boat to play on .
Wally sales will grow too , won’t be effected by the UK 3 .
I guess a parallel growth in 2nd holiday home purchases from affluent folks in the usual suspect places in the Med is taking place ?
They want a boat to play on .
PowerYachtBlog
Well-Known Member
Sector is not new, Italian have been in it since the sixties, where Villa boat toys where much of a thing then big boat today.
If anything if you ask Carlo, as in C-Riva the market has shrank a lot since then.
We actually now have its new version called chase toys for Super Yachts, and that is getting bigger as are super-mega-giga yachts.
Wally - Vanquish - Wajer are the stronger ones, then you have Fjord - Pardo following.
Then you have a list of out-board powered center-consoles from the USA, which have a share of the market as big if not bigger to the above. Possibly dominated in Europe by the Wally like Axopar?
Invincible - Yellowfin - Pursuit to throw some of the popular names, of which there is a couple of dozens I guess, without putting in the fish the fully custom East Coast builders.
Now this is the market which is growing at an immense pace in the last five to ten years, and seems not to want stop. Carried forward, surely by the big American market, but even in Europe this style is penetrating not little. So much so, that Viking, which I consider as the best boat builder currently in the World has also jumped into it, presenting three new models and a new brand Valhalia from 33 to 41.
Even though the New Jersey boat still has impressive growth since 2014/15 and sales into its sport fishing and yacht line are very strong.
If anything if you ask Carlo, as in C-Riva the market has shrank a lot since then.
We actually now have its new version called chase toys for Super Yachts, and that is getting bigger as are super-mega-giga yachts.
Wally - Vanquish - Wajer are the stronger ones, then you have Fjord - Pardo following.
Then you have a list of out-board powered center-consoles from the USA, which have a share of the market as big if not bigger to the above. Possibly dominated in Europe by the Wally like Axopar?
Invincible - Yellowfin - Pursuit to throw some of the popular names, of which there is a couple of dozens I guess, without putting in the fish the fully custom East Coast builders.
Now this is the market which is growing at an immense pace in the last five to ten years, and seems not to want stop. Carried forward, surely by the big American market, but even in Europe this style is penetrating not little. So much so, that Viking, which I consider as the best boat builder currently in the World has also jumped into it, presenting three new models and a new brand Valhalia from 33 to 41.
Even though the New Jersey boat still has impressive growth since 2014/15 and sales into its sport fishing and yacht line are very strong.
petem
Well-Known Member
Surely, the Superyacht chase boat market is pretty small, particularly when you exclude custom built tenders?
Best chase boat: S/S H38 (tubes and rough weather handling)
Best day boat: FL F33
Best boat for going round corners: Prin R35
Best chase boat: S/S H38 (tubes and rough weather handling)
Best day boat: FL F33
Best boat for going round corners: Prin R35
MapisM
Well-Known Member
Wow. I guess you mean best in its segment, namely sport fishing boats.
And if so, probably many aficionados would agree.
Otoh, even with that restriction, if you never saw a Jarrett Bay in flesh, you are really missing something.
I don't think you would have a chance anywhere in the Med, though.
And also in the US, they are far from being popular boats which you can spot in most marinas.
But saying that their build quality (and performances, as I was told) is mind blowing is an understatement.
Imho better than anything ever built by Viking, Hatt and Bertram - just to name the most well known builders in this segment.
MapisM
Well-Known Member
stelican
Well-Known Member
Colour is good and you get an idea of size from last photo.But no good for bathing from as platform high from water and no sign of ladder!
PowerYachtBlog
Well-Known Member
And here I was, arguing with PYB bold statement about Viking...
Talk about a blind cat. Yes then after those three there is Riva and Sarnico and some other poor mans boats. If it's not a FlPrSS it cannot float I guess....
I remember that movie about the hearing of WW II acts against humanity and the German General convicted says in the hearing with a tongue in check, one British ship and dominion of the seas.
Meaning that if it was not for USA we will not be having this discussion.
Yes off course I know Jarrett Bay, and Spencer, and Bayliss, and there is Rybovich and Merritt. Again to name a few. But custom builds are something else.
I still ponder how in Italy it never took off, to be honest, with the experience they had up until the 90s in wood.
Yes in its segment Viking is the best, followed by Hatteras, and now Bertram being revived by Gavio.
But also best in the technical detail, and here I still do not understand how the sportfish boats tech and style of systems are not used into normal Euro motor yachts, they are impressive in that area as well and I still ponder while they are not copied to the letter. I mean the technical detail in the electrical system of a Cabo or a Viking is close to perfection.
But anyway I am sure people think am an alien and think this is a Viking boat with twenty rowers per side and a central mast.
Illetas
Active Member
Twenty years ago when we first started boating in Ibiza we were shocked to be told that most used their boats as day boats and went back to their villas/apartments at the end of the day.
That’s still very much the case and, apart from visitors on cruises, I would think that at least 75 % of the boats in our marina are day boats, no matter what the size. There are quite a number of the Fjord style boats, a few Axopar and a big selection of Wajers ( they have 26 boats in Ibiza) There’s a big market for something around 40ft at sensible money ( not least because of the availability of 12 mtr berths as opposed to bigger berths) that you can use for day trips to Formentera and the Ibiza coast.
That’s still very much the case and, apart from visitors on cruises, I would think that at least 75 % of the boats in our marina are day boats, no matter what the size. There are quite a number of the Fjord style boats, a few Axopar and a big selection of Wajers ( they have 26 boats in Ibiza) There’s a big market for something around 40ft at sensible money ( not least because of the availability of 12 mtr berths as opposed to bigger berths) that you can use for day trips to Formentera and the Ibiza coast.
stelican
Well-Known Member
stelican
Well-Known Member
Poweryacht
You never cease to amaze me with your in depth knowledge you must be at least 150 years old!
You never cease to amaze me with your in depth knowledge you must be at least 150 years old!
petem
Well-Known Member
And here I was, arguing with PYB bold statement about Viking...
Best of the 3, not best in the world - even I wouldn't be so bold as to suggest that!
For what it's worth if/when we buy a place abroad this is what I'd buy....
https://www.yachtworld.co.uk/boats/2016/axopar-28-t-top-3573728/?refSource=browse listing
Pete
julians
Well-Known Member
I see a lot of those axopar around majorca, they looks really good, and if I was in the market for a newer boat, that's probably what I would go with.
PowerYachtBlog
Well-Known Member
May be I am 300. But hey motor boating as we know it today started in the sixties, so I really do not need to be so much old.
Axopar's are competitively priced, made a meal of the Wally style and made it look like a Land Rover.
Personally i am not a fan of vertical bows, and after reading Levi's thoughts about it, I even became less a fan.
Please give me a flared bow anytime to this. Please.
petem
Well-Known Member
I see Jack has now test driven the boat. Whilst it may not be my idea if what a 33ft boat should deliver, it does look awesome fun. I WANT A GO!
jrudge
Well-Known Member
It was not at Southampton but given it does close to 50 kts and is about half the price of the princess and suseeker version I suspect they will sell a few
MapisM
Well-Known Member
Yup, that comes through as a thrilling ride indeed. :encouragement:
Actually, it would be annoying if it weren't, considering the available power.
The overall finishing also looks pretty good.
Among other details, they must have been inspired by my suggestion on F&S retractable cleats in this thread, I reckon.
The teak planks design/layout needs attention, though. Btw, it's a bit surprising that in these days of pre-cut, CAD-optimized decks, they didn't do better right from the start.
As an aside, is Jack still alive? I would have shooted him if he boarded my boat with shoes on, let alone inside the cabin!
Portofino
Well-Known Member
Yes good point buts it’s smaller .
It might be aimed under the other two not at them .
In which case a different demographic of buyer .
There’s room for product development say a 38 or 42 as well in fact a whole range maybe one day a 50 something?
jrudge
Well-Known Member
Porto
Do bear in mind not everyone wants to scream about at 50kts. especially as some brands seem to leave of the side rails !
That aside does size matter much in the fun day boat sector ?
Do bear in mind not everyone wants to scream about at 50kts. especially as some brands seem to leave of the side rails !
That aside does size matter much in the fun day boat sector ?