new engines required

James if you want to try on 1 engine I will come to Blyth and shadow you down to Hartlepool, at least if you get the first 40 miles over with no dramas then you might feel happier about the rest of the journey, you have my number but my boat came out the water today for 10 days so will have to be after then.
Mike
 
Looks like we have an engine lost it's coolant and have seized as a result of apparently overhaeting .. so challenge now is to find out to which grade, both banks etc... Personally surprised that no alarms went off but would look at the engine oil and get an analysis as well as this may be an alternative cause if no alarms have gone off..

(Icepatrol... this is a recommendation as it may become a cause of failure ... and if the oil in the engine was wrong from the outset, it may have been a contributing factor to the engine failure)...

These are engines requiring single grade oil !!!!! multi-grade is just simply wrong for these lumps !!!

The single most cause of engine problems with these two stroke Detroits, is the use of multi-grade engine oil. ie,15W40. These engines were designed to operate on straight weight engine oil ONLY30W or 40W as this engine has cast iron full round pistons the running clearances are tight. Plus the inverted scraper type oil rings(4) have a high tension abutment ring which causes a "slicing action" to the oil. Multi grade oil cannot stand up to this type of abusive use.

These engines require a super charger to supply air thru the internal air box, which means this engine has a top and bottom half. What may have happened here is that the pistons have seized in the liner... wrong oil ... or mis-aligned top/bottom part. (Re-fit, honing of cylinder and fitting of oversized liner is the standard procedure if really seized).

In a worst case the connecting rod may have been pulled apart.... Good news here is that it does not appear that the rod pin bolt (x-head rods) has been pulled out of the piston pin. This would have caused the rod still connected to the crankshaft to whip around inside the block and cause serious and fatal block damage.... which would be BIG BANG failure with bits of metal flying around in the engine room..

From the facts I have, an in situ repair / rebuild is as a result possible...and may even be simple... but it may be preferred to take engine out for a re-build ... dependant of access levels, speed of rapair ... and if one wants engineer and parts to come to boat, or engine to go to workshop..

I am sure Icepatrol will keep us informed...
 
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hi Alf,
i must admit to being a little, just a little , over whelmed by your techy info. beleive it or not i am a time served instrument maker....anyway...
your theory ref the oil does hold water (excuse the pun) the reason i say that is the temp gauge never rose above its operating level all through the jorney. as soon as we lost power on the port engine i quickly noticed the gauge and it showed normal.
so, oil maybe. but the report by mitchel engineering in newcastle say cooling water escaped due to a pipe rubbing and eventually burst open a hole for the coolant to escape.
now my major question Alf.
would you do the repairs nessesary ?
a foot note that i missed out on. if the boat was towed to her home port the redundant shaft would turn on its own by nature of the prop in the water. i assume the bearing would overheat ???
thanks again guys. its warming to hear you chaps being so helpful. i hope i can return something one day.
james.
 
icepatrol said:
hi Alf,
.......
would you do the repairs nessesary ?
a foot note that i missed out on. if the boat was towed to her home port the redundant shaft would turn on its own by nature of the prop in the water. i assume the bearing would overheat ???.
Click to expand...

You're welcome James...

Water leak can be gradual and whilst most coolant may have been lost, there may have been enough to circulate and keep engine cool if under low load ... and would have been an easy assumption to make ... "Look in header tank, if empty and seized engine, then that is the cause..." ...but cause may be elsewhere ... What kind of oil do youcarry onboard .... if 15/40 I'd hazard to put money on (or a Newcastle brown Ale) that this was a contributing cause, not just coolant...

Remember, I cannot make the choice for you ... you have to do that yourself.

If it was my boat and I could find an engineer locally that knows the 92 series (are Michel Detroit Engineers, or just "Diesel Engineers" with some knowledge? ... ie is the 92 series amongst the engines they have engineers qualified on ? ) , then yes .... or if not you have three choices:

1. Lift boat in Blythe and get engine out and have engine sent to repair shop. (gave you number yesterday)
2. Leave boat on water in Blythe, lift engine out and send to repair shop
3.Get boat "home" by water / road / own keel
 
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If the damage was caused by a pipe 'rubbing', there could be an avenue for an accidental damage claim on your insurance.

We had an incident here recently with an oil filter rubbing a hole through on an engine mount and depositing the entire contents into the bilge, subsequently siezing the motor. Insurance paid up for the full rebuild.

Some modern boxes cope with the free spinning of the trailing prop shaft, but yours is probably a 5 series ZF and probably won't (oil feed off the input shaft). If you have a water fed PSS shaft seal, it doesn't need to get unnecessarily hot, so lock off the shaft.

Before travelling by sea back to home port, familiarize yourself with the fuel tank arrangement (in case of multiple tanks), particuarly if there is a manifold system (fuel distribution). Get the tanks switched over before the motor stops from fuel starvation.
The 8V92's do not have a mechanical lift pump, so carry a separate container (5 litres) of diesel to manually fill the primariy and secondary filters, just in case you un-intentionally run a tank dry.
They will start again easily once the filters are full of fuel.
 
check oil level on port engine start and run , smoking very badly, compare with starboard
engine. Remove air slencers and rocker covers, carry out compresson test--results right
bank-IR 445 2R 460 3R 465 4R 465 LEFT bank2l 485 3l 485 . right bank compressons low
No1R VERY LOW remove right bank air box covers and inspect, N1r piston badly burnt and
has siezed compresson rings. refit all covers and air silencers, return to stockton.
Customers Signature:
06:30
Total Miles Travelled: 120 Total Breaks: 00:30
port engine requires stripdown and repair --- bad water leak from water cooled exhaust
manifold left bank split metal water pipe below fuel cool
 
I did lots of trips on one engine on my old boat, always very carful not to push too much, Then a forum member offered me a second hand engine and the boat yard fitted free in turn for the gear boxes,
 
So no fatal engine failure.... Good!!!!

Re-build of Right Bank required (wild guess at £1500 x 4)....seized piston rings is not seized engine..... excess smoke will probably be as a result of slow starting (excess fuel in combustion chamber and un-burnt fuel in exhaust ... plus oil escaping into combustion chamber).

Engine starts and if lubricated and cooled could be started for short intervals and used for manouvering...or emergency power whilst waiting for assistance... (you still have a linkage problem I believe and may want to resolve this irrespective...).

Need to replace split metal water pipe below fuel cooler.... and perhaps patch exhaust manifold.. if you want to have an option to use in emergencies....

Would not use the engine for main propulsion, but light use (as when inspector started for test will only be of concern for no 1 cylinder.... which obvioulsy need some attention... bearing in mind that the seized piston rings probably are main cause for very low compression and smoke ... and if loosened through use may bring compression in cylinder 1 up to similar as rest of bank..... (not that I would recommend that of course!!!!).

If it was me, and was happy with mechanic and company, I'd fix in situ..(subject to cost and budget availability).. but if desperately wanting to "get home and good mechanic / engineer was available nearby home ....and other engine was in good health ... (see above)..., I'd take her home on one engine.... preferrably in stable weather conditions.... and with escort if available (see that one already have offered). Good planning here and do take your time ...and please do not stress the engine, so keep at low RPM ... remember that full load on one engine may be as low as 14 - 1500 RPM, so better to keep it low... just before turbo kicks in at 1200 RPM (Listen to engine when underway)..... Noo need to run with over fuelling for prolonged periods of time... as it causes more problems than the small gain is worth.
 
thanks for that Alf.
the mist is clearing a little. it seems the main issue now is if the repairs can be done with the engine in situ. we were told that to take out the engine for repair would involve removing the flybridge, or a good section of it.
we are alos looking at the possibility that the insurance would cover the cost as the probable cause of engine failure was that a burst pipe caused the engine to overheat etc etc.
did i see pics on this site of you on a simular boat to ours, smaller but basically same design ????
 
Hope it can be done in situ....

DSC_0137.jpg


But radar arch is different now as we took some green water over bow and ripped the structure off...

DSC_0416.jpg
 
very nice Alf
do you still have her.
from a bow view she almost looks like ours.
would love to have ours back in suffolk, it would mean we could be there to monitor the work and maybe also learn a little more about these engines. also just kinda nice to have your own boat near, if you get my meaning.
but we might have to keep her there.
firstly...not so sure a good idea (or not so confident running her down with only one engine)
secondly, and maybe more importantly, if a insurance claim is pending the insurance company would maybe want her remaining in the same spot......
ps. where abouts are you located Alf ?
scotland ? for some reason i had you down for yarmouth....
regards
james.
 
Yup still have her ... lifting her out of the water in a couple of weeks for the winter .... circumstances etc., plus it is three years since she's been out of the water so work needed on seals, and fittings ... plus an insurance inspection, so will be a different winter without boat on the water...

Would not worry about Blythe Marina ... good staff and facilities... Ask them if you
can get lifted and onto the hardstand to get this sorted over the early part of the autumn ... and hopefully you can get the repair done in situ..

http://www.rnyc.org.uk/index.html
 
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