New engine...

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i have spoken to "plant fitters" who service Kubota engines, 6000hrs,
only ever changed the oil, filters, ect @ correct service intervals

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The Kubota auxillary in my fishing vessel has done more than 10,000 hours. One freshwater pump and a couple of belts. Starter motor had a broken wire behind solenoid. Johnson cooling pump has had a few impellers, otherwise it runs perfect. Most of the other fishing vessels use the same auxillary here with the same results.
 
If it helps, I've literally just replaced an aged but reliable Petter Mini twin with a Beta 20hp. Bear in mind its in a 7.5 ton 36' and apart from some small bedding in problems, the engine makes the boat feel like a spring lamb.

I wanted a small light engine as an auxilliary in a trad sailing boat, which had to be easy to service and had to have ready access to important bits like the water impellor. Bear in mind I just wanted enough grunt to move the boat over bad seaways and against foul tides, so not a powerboat reqirement. Very happy with it so far, but I'm glad I made the switch.
 
Simon
Yanmar have stopped making the 2GM20 engines. The new series is YM.

As for the original posters question I favour Yanmar engines as I have used them the most. My uncle has the 2GM in a 32' Gibsea and I think it's slightly under powered in a head sea but has never failed to start and run until he wants to stop it - my YC has 2 boats with 2GM's in and they get the s**t beat out of them, both have approx. 8000 hrs on, they (the members that is) even managed to sink one for 8 days - the boson and I pulled it out, dried it out, and then re-started it. We now have one boat with the new 3YM30 and it's a beauty - quiet - almost vibration free - comes complete with piping connections for a califor, calriior, ah bo'locks a hot water tank.

I think the bottom line is these days it's difficult to find a bad diesel so it's down to personal preference taking into consideration things like availability of spares/service - cruising area etc.

Peter.
 
Lombardini 1003 - by far the most economical, quietist, lightest and reliable engine I have ever come across - although I did used to work for the importers, engines and deckings, thats what I'm good at -

Also, Lombardini have the most extensive support network I have ever seen, you can use bits of gensets for the engines and vice versa, tractor engines bla, bla, bla - it will go on forever and is very clean too.
 
Hi

We are very happy with our Beta. We have the 50hp. Very helpful team. I went to see it running in the factory before despatch it is quiet and runs like a sewing machine. They also do feet to suit your current engine mounting so making installation easier. One point, I would ask them to put in the extended oil dipstick as the standard one can be hard to locate. And the price was right!

I have no conection with Beta except as a satisfied customer.

James
 
If I remember correctly you have a Centurion 32, like me. I, too, reengined when the MD2B expired! I was inspired by a German who had a Centurion and had had to reengine to measure up very carefully. He had found that only the Beta, at that time, would fit without having to cut the furniture about.
I obtained a dimensions plan from Volvo for the MD2B and made a cardboard cut out to scale. I did the same for the Yanmar, the Nanni and Beta. I didnt do one for the Volvo because the current model in 2003 had the service items at the back. When I superimposed the cutouts on the Volvo I discovered that the mounts on the Nanni were too far forward and the tank over the front too high. The Yanmar was too wide and it would have been very difficult to access the filter on stbd. side of engine. The Beta just seemed to fit since the cooling tank is aft on the port side and the forward mounts some way back. In the event I chose it and it just fitted with 1/2" between gearbox/shaft coupling and stern tube shaft log. The installer had to turn the pump out oil pump round slightly but even then I had to chip a small bit of wood away to stop a nut rattling against the furniture. The other thing you need to watch is propellor rotation. The MD2B is a left hander. Most new engines are right handers. I contacted Holman and Pye who advised I must keep a lefthander or the boat would hardly steer astern(it's bad enough already!) This means you must fit a gearbox that's man enough to run astern for ahead if you see what I mean! Beta advised a TWC which so far has been OK. I also took the opportunity to fit a folding propellor instead of the original 3 blader. What a good decision! Under sail at least 3/4 knot more! I also took the opportunity to move the primary filter to a more accessible position. The Beta has done about 500 hours so far with no problems, but it has burned a little more fuel I think. Good luck with what is a major job. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
 
I too would go for Lombardini. On my boat I fitted the predecessor LDW903M, a 3-cylinder job that gives 25hp continuously at the shaft.

Some of the figures given by certain manufacturers go for the higher 'automotive' power which cannot realistically be held for a long time.

Other factors influencing the choice:-
*Proper marine engine - not a marinised version.
*All check points accessible from the front.
*Light weight.
*Neat compact design
*Extremely clean in operation
*Each Injector has its own plunger/pump and they can be calibrated in-situ.

As in most things marine, opinions are generally based on other people's experiences; in my case I was greatly influenced by the results of a little single cylinder job (LDW401M) that I had installed on my old Vivacity. Totally satisfied.
 
All the engines you mention, excepting the Yanmar and Volvo are marinised Kubotas. (Not sure about the Nanni). A perfectly respectable industrial engine, really look for the cheapest price and the marinisation that you trust.

Of all the engines, only the Yanmar is designed specifically as a marine engine.

I take it your boat is 3500 kg not tonnes?

Have a look also at one of the smaller 3YM.
 
Fit a Beta - I fitted a 25HP in my Moody 33 recently and got a good deal. They will even make wider engine mounts so you don't have to make new engine bearers(approx £100 extra). Bargain hard at the boat show. Vetus (Mitsubishi) was cheaper but the sea water pump is at the side not the front, no oil pump fitted and no mods to the engine mounts available. Based on Kubota so spares available easily. Before anyone replies and suggests that 25HP is too small - the M33 cannot swing a larger prop than 13"Ø so I'm limited. Nanni said I only needed 14HP to get to hull speed.
I think most modern diesel engines are good nowadays, check dealers locally check spares prices, check availability pf spares overseas(couldn't get a Beta fuel filter in Holland recently but the Yanmar one was identical!) Good Luck!
 
Hi. I have a Centurion 32, and re-engined her to a Yanmar 3GM30F without having to remove the MD2B engine beds - but there were a couple of tricks required. It is a tight fit mind. After 5 years the engine has done a few hundred hours running with no problems. As the boat weighs nearer 5000 Kg than 3500 Kg I would suggest sticking to engines in the 25 to 30HP area - it makes a real difference to speed through the water - especially with an autoprop /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

If your interested in details, drop me a note.

Regards, Jeff.
 
Yes, I got the weight completely wrong! It's going to be a toss-up between the Volvo D1-30 and the Yanmar 3YM30: possibly the latter as it may well turn out cheaper. What are the 'couple of tricks required'? (1- opening a cheque book; 2 - writing an inordinately large number therein...). Do you have any details of the prop fitted?

regards
Lucian
 
I realised after posting the message that the old 3GM30F may not be available new anymore - I think Yanmar have revised the range since I bought mine.

Anyway ...

Essentially what I did was get a pair of suitable adaptors made (I used angle iron /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif ) with studs welded into the bottom to suit the old MD2B engine mountings, and studs on top to match the Yanmar mounts.

Then you turn the sea water pump though 180 degrees and replace the hose from the pump to the heat exchanger as it now (obviously) is wrong (I used fuel hose). You have to do this or it fouls the old engine bed.

Then drop the engine directly onto the mounts (ie, remove the nuts and adjusters which normally go under the engine mount and allow the engine height to be adjusted).

This resulted (for me) in the engine being aligned with the old shaft. There was a lot of measuring and checking before doing this. But is all fits.

Things to note:

you will almost certainly end up with a change in rotation on the shaft. Most modern engines seem to have the flywheel at their stern, whereas the old MD2B had its flywheel at the front. So accepting that you will need a new shaft and propeller from the start will save time and money. I know this, now. Note: Shaft is 25mm, not imperial 1".

Plan to install the new engine as far forward as resonable - there isn't much space between the gearbox on the engine and the end of the stern tub. Especially if you fit a flexible coupling and Manecraft Stern Tube Seal, as I have done.

You can remove the old engine in pieces, and yes, you can eventually get the flywheel off the old engine - but it did require some persuasion. Watch out for oil, place something under then engine, and in the gap where the hull runs under the floor boards to catch and soak up any spillage. It save a lot of cleaning up and replacing things tainted with oil. Yes, I know this the hard way too.

The new engine will go into the engine bay via the companion way - but you will need to cut the "bar" where the top engine access flap meets it. Aeolus had obviously had her engine out before and I have a stainless steel bar running all the way across from the galley to the quarter berth periodically screwed into the framework to maintain the strength once this has been done. Doesn't look as bad as it sounds, honest.

Propeller. Have been throught a few now /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif but finally have a 15.5" Bruntons 3 blade autoprop. This is excellent. However, my previous 15"x12" 2 bladed Gori folding prop was also excellent, and less than a third of the cost. I changed because I could now afford the prop I always wanted, and I plan to do more cruising than racing, so the extra drag isn't so critical.

The gearbox on my 3GM is the 2.6:1 version. I am not sure if this was a mistake or not. I picked it because it gave virtually the same shaft RPM range as the old engine. However, whenever you do a "prop" calculation, they always insist that you need a 16 or 17" prop - which you simply cannot install. So I would consider using a gearbox which gives higher shaft RPM so that you can use a smaller prop/finer pitch and still achieve getting max power into the water. The down side of this is greater cutlass bearing wear and high power losses in the transmission. "Swings and roundabouts" as we say here.

I seem to have been lucky (eventually), the Autoprop is the first propeller which has allowed me to use full throttle. Max RPM under max throttle is 3200 RPM - close enough to the max constant operational speed of 3400 RPM that I am not worried. But all other props would reach max RPM before full throttle. Max speed through the water looks to be 7+ knots. She reached 6.75 on the way back from Cowes week, but the prop has a layer of squatters on it, and the hull was definitely "frilly" in places - she desperately needs a lift out and clean. Either way, this is faster than the hull wants to be driven - 5 to 5.5 knots was relaxed and easy.

I think that that is enough for the moment.

Regards, Jeff.
 
Speechless! A reply beyond the call of forum duty that is definitely worth a few virtual pints (cashable at the earliest opportunity!), and which will be of GREAT help to me.
Thanks lots!

Lucian
 
Perhaps one day I'll have the opportunity cash them in. I will be interested in hearing how you get on and what you do. We (my father and I) did all the work ourselves - but still changing the engine cost ~£6000, and that was before changing the propeller a number of times.

My best advice would be, do it right and proper first time. Don't cut corners "to save a few pence", because it will cost more in the longer term. Had I gone directly for what I have now, then, I would have saved probably ~£1500 pounds.

BTW, if you don't already have a rope cutter, now is the time to plan to install one too. Saved my bacon last weekend - though I now have a much shorter mooring line. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Regards, Jeff.
 
Sorry - just read your comment about keeping left handed prop. My experience suggests that this isn't an issue. Yes, she will have port bias in astern, but nothing unmanagable. I certainly wouldn't say that you should only use a left handed solution. In fact it can be a benefit. Because the prop isn't infront of the rudder there is no propwash effect, so I nearly always use the prop walk to my benefit, and can make Aeolus turn through 180 degrees in just over her own length. If the prop walk was negated by the shaft angle I couldn't do this so easily. But, yes, those first couple of meters in astern she heads to port and ignores the tiller.

Regards, Jeff.
 
Have you made any progress? I now seem to be in the same situation.

Got down to the boat this weekend and couldn't get the oil pump to prime. So it's one last attempt to resolve that and if not off to Southampton waving large quantities of £50 notes /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

I've done some initial research which reveals that the Volvo at least can be supplied with a gearbox that will drive the LH propellor (an important factor for me given the cost of a new prop).

BTW if you do take the old MD2B out I'd be happy to make you and offer for the oil pump (assuming that it works) - might keep mine running a few years longer.
I'm interested to know how you get on getting the old engine out - and the new in. I know that in my Centurion the engine was removed a few years ago so it is obviously possible without major disruption to the furniture - I wonder if they had to pull it forwards before lifting it out
 
Getting the MD2B out was a two-stage job: lifting it and moving it forward; hitching the cable to the lift point forward of the galley-top bar, and then jiggling it forward and up. The MD2B is now in pieces at the mechanic. I'd be happy to send you the oil pump (I'll check it's ok first), and can also help with two starter motors and an alternator if you so wish! Bear in mind, however, that I'm in Italy so the p&p may come to more than from UK.
It's a national holiday here today so no progress made, although I hope tomorrow to make my final decision. I am tending towards the Volvo, however, for the reason you gave - plus the boat is already with the Volvo mechanic. I'll let you know how I get on.
 
Sorry to hear that you're having trouble. The oil pump failing was the end of my old MD2B. Watch out as there does appear to be TWO slightly different oil pumps for the MD2B - they look nearly identical, but naturally are not interchangable. All I can say is that the first pump they found was wrong, and the second was right but also worn out.

Other than that, I hope all is well with you - long time no see.

Regards, Jeff.
 
The engine poses an interesting dilemma. It is now 33 years old so won't go on for ever - in particular I am getting concerned about the amount of rust in areas that are virtually inaccessible without craning the engine out.

Once it becomes inevitable that I will have to replace the engine while I still own the boat then there is a lot to be said for doing so sooner rather than later. The MD2B may be very reliable and very economical but it is not very refined compared to modern engines - so I think replacing it would be a significant improvement. I'm sure that once I've actually replaced the engine I will be cursing myself for not having done so ages ago!

We really aren't getting much sailing done at all this year - which is why losing last weekend due to an engine problem was particularly frustrating - and that is also part of the problem since the engine is much happier if it is started every couple of days rather than being left 3 week between uses.

I'm going to have one more attempt to resolve the oil-pump priming problem without spending £££ but if that fails then I'll have to bite the bullet and invest in a new one
 
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