New engine - what about this?

Rivers & creeks

Rivers & creeks

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We're going to be fitting a new diesel engine soon and came across these. They are obviously cheaper than many alternatives but the adage that 'you get what you pay for' isn't true of all marine gear - the 'yacht markup' is a well known phenomenon. The difference in price between a Beta (nice engine) and this is about £3000 - a hell of a lot of money. has anyone had experience of them or other comment. Much appreciated. Simon

We are looking at the MP458

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/27-80hp-diesel-marine-boat-engine-NEW-warranty-/200367719508?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_Boat_Engines_EngineParts_SM&hash=item2ea6d8c454#ht_1068wt_1001
 
Nothing to do with the mythical "yacht mark-up". Marine engines from reputable manufacturers are all roughly the same price because that is what the market has determined. I expect when you get to the actual price (after all the discounts and haggling) you will find the difference is very small - there is nothing magic these people have that can lead to dramatically lower prices.

It may well be a perfectly adequate engine - the base engines are OK - but do you want to take the risk against the well established brands to save a few hundred £s?
 
It does look attractive. With an indirectly cooled engine by a well known maker there isn't a great deal of risk in buying a marinised version. I guess the questions to be asked are:- what's the difference between a Nissan block and a Nissan-designed block? And who made it? Similarly with the smaller engines:- 'similar to a Kubota design' may mean anything. Worth asking the seller though.
 
Tranona said:
It may well be a perfectly adequate engine - the base engines are OK - but do you want to take the risk against the well established brands to save a few hundred £s?
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In this case the difference is a whopping £3,000 :eek:

The thing is, if it was only £1,000 cheaper I'd probably think better of it!
 
vyv_cox said:
It does look attractive. With an indirectly cooled engine by a well known maker there isn't a great deal of risk in buying a marinised version. I guess the questions to be asked are:- what's the difference between a Nissan block and a Nissan-designed block? And who made it? Similarly with the smaller engines:- 'similar to a Kubota design' may mean anything. Worth asking the seller though.
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Think they are Chinese copies. Everything is referred to as XX "type" eg "PRM Type" gearbox. They are all typically heavier and slower revving than competitors.

The "M" power name is aplay on what was Perkins brand for their marine engines when they sold engines direct.
 
I think someone posted sometime ago about these and there were a few links to youtube vids. I know one forumite who has bought one of the larger ones but has not got his boat ready for the water yet. From the outside it seems to be a very well made bit of kit.
The website says spare are easily available, I suppose thats ok as long as the company is still there and supplying these engines.
http://www.marine-power-solutions.com

There doesn't seem to be much of a saving on the smaller ones and I think I would be tempted to go for a more well known make.
 
The Chinese are one of the the world's biggest manufacturers of small diesel engines. The fact that you are dealing with a UK distributor is a point in their favour, and at these prices they'll sell by the shedload. Are they worth having? Only time and usage will tell. Will there be adequate spares support when its needed? That's the chance you take. Certainly bad news for their competitors, unless they drop their prices to compete.
 
Tranona said:
Think they are Chinese copies. Everything is referred to as XX "type" eg "PRM Type" gearbox. They are all typically heavier and slower revving than competitors.

The "M" power name is aplay on what was Perkins brand for their marine engines when they sold engines direct.
Click to expand...

There have been some rather negative comments so far, but not from direct experience.
I bought one of these engines this time last year. The engine is now installed and running but the boat is not in the water as an extensive refit of all systems continues.
They are copies of other designs. The small units are of Kubotas and the larger ones are Nissan based. The manufacturer is XINGYANG MACHINERY Co but the global distribution system is in the hands of country agents. Each markets the engine under different names; in the UK as M-Power, in Germany TDME and so on. German websites had more detail as a larger number of the units have been sold there.
My unit was bought from one of two importers in the UK and the lead-time on my order did not materialise. It was delivered on a pallet at the boatyard a week after I placed the order. Paperwork was sparse and I had to request a wiring diagram. Installation instructions were brief, to say the least although when I helped instal a friend's new Volvo the instructions were mostly to do with warranty invalidations.
My installation took a fair bit of time as the engine bearers on my boat are a steel space-frame welded to the armature. It would have been just as complicated with eny engine brand.
For a 4-pot 46 hp the engine is compact enough and the footprint was the closest I could find to the old engine, a 3-cylinder Yanmar.
The engine came ready assembled with a plug 'n play panel and once the engine was on its mounts the rest was a doddle. It started second turn of the key. Here is the engine in its new home:
DSC_0006.jpg

After-sales have not been an issue yet. The engine came with a full set of spare filters and impellor, etc. and with the exception of the impellor there is nothing I would not be able to buy from Halfords.
When it comes to non-consumable spares I understand concerns, but I have the comfort of knowing millions of the base engines are in service globally in diggers and tractors.
Money-wise its a no-brainer. A year ago the price differential between the TDME and a like-for-like Yanmar replacement was 40%.
I hope this helps.
 
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As ever time will tell, but they certainly do not seem over stressed to get their rated output. If I was in the market there are plenty of questions I would be asking but I suspect they will work for some people
 
I wonder if those small diesels designed for semitrailer refrigeration units could be good candidates for marinisation? After all, they are presumably designed for operating under adverse conditions, at constant rpm for extended periods of time. There must be a bazzilionty-trillion of them out there too, so one would suppose they are fairly cheap.
 
Thanks Gordon that looks a neat installation. All up the difference is £3,400 which may be small change to some but is a hell of a big deal for me. Beta make every unit to order in the UK, these are production line built in China, that economy of manufacturing process will account for a lot of the difference.
 
Its your call as to whether you want to take the risk with an unknown make. The marine engine scene is littered with failed manufacturers as it is a tough, low volume market where it is difficult to make money.

You may, of course be backing a winner, but I suspect they will disappear as quickly as they came!

If they really are that good, why are they selling them 40% cheaper than the competition?
 
You miss the point. If they are so good, why do they sell them so cheap? Cost is not a determinant of price. If they charged nearer the market rate they might make money and be able to establish themselves as a serious player in the market.

However, they clearly recognise the resistance they will meet in the market place and their only selling feature is low price.

You have to remember the market for replacement engines is very small volume and there are already 6 or so very well established suppliers so they are going to struggle to make any impression.
 
Tranona said:
If they really are that good, why are they selling them 40% cheaper than the competition?
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If they were at the "market" price no one would buy them, however by offering a good saving they will sell, get known and if they are any good develop into an accepted alternative to the established runners.
 
Tranona said:
You miss the point. If they are so good, why do they sell them so cheap? Cost is not a determinant of price. If they charged nearer the market rate they might make money and be able to establish themselves as a serious player in the market.

However, they clearly recognise the resistance they will meet in the market place and their only selling feature is low price.

You have to remember the market for replacement engines is very small volume and there are already 6 or so very well established suppliers so they are going to struggle to make any impression.
Click to expand...

An unknown make of engine will greatly affect the re-sale price of the vessel.
when i re-engined i looked @ similar type ( i cant remember the make :rolleyes:) but settled for a Nanni. now 9 seasons on with 800 trouble free hrs i am well pleased. it wasnt cheap the Beta would have been less but prefered the Nanni.
 
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