New Danish insurance rules on speedboats and personal watercraft.....

Seven Spades

Seven Spades

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I cannot see how this can possibly be legal. If you have a PWC that is insured by an EU insurer I do not see how they can refuse to recognise that. This regulation flies in the face of competition and stinks of protectionism. I don't have a problem with all powered vessels requiring insurance that's fine but they should recognise insurances issued by other countries. The RYA needs to take this up either at EU level or with our government via their contacts.
 
Seven Spades said:
http://www.ybw.com/news-from-yachti...-to-foreigners-too-in-denmark-rya-warns-67091


I cannot see how this can possibly be legal. If you have a PWC that is insured by an EU insurer I do not see how they can refuse to recognise that. This regulation flies in the face of competition and stinks of protectionism. I don't have a problem with all powered vessels requiring insurance that's fine but they should recognise insurances issued by other countries. The RYA needs to take this up either at EU level or with our government via their contacts.
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Are we reading the same article? All it says is that you need insurance if you have a speed boat or PWC that covers you to a certain limit. If you have such a craft make sure that your insurance company covers you in Denmark.
 
This information seems to have originated from a flyer by the Danish Cruising Association. The flyer doesn't mention foreigners and its wording may have been over-interpreted.
Denmark has introduced Insurance for PWCs and small RIBS because of an accident last year in which a couple of tourists were killed. Previously these class of boats didn't need insurance.
Officials at the CA are endeavouring to clarify the position but my Danish sources believe that as long as you do have sufficient cover, you will be OK.
 
Seven Spades said:
I cannot see how this can possibly be legal. If you have a PWC that is insured by an EU insurer I do not see how they can refuse to recognise that.
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What is proposed seems no different from the rules about car insurance in the UK. From https://www.mib.org.uk/about-mib/mib-membership/

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Seven Spades said:
This is not related. This is says nothing abut visiting cars. The original artical said that visitors must have Danish insurance to use a PWC in Denmark.
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The article says

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so it seems reasonable to point out that a very similar restriction applies to companies insuring cars in the UK. Is there an EU directive requiring boat insurance to apply across the EU? I'm pretty sure mine wouldn't cover me for the Baltic, as it's outside the specified grounds.

Edit: there is nothing new about EU member states applying the same rules to visiting craft as they do to residents. Lifejackets in Ireland, for example, or flares in France.
 
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JumbleDuck said:
The article says

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so it seems reasonable to point out that a very similar restriction applies to companies insuring cars in the UK. Is there an EU directive requiring boat insurance to apply across the EU? I'm pretty sure mine wouldn't cover me for the Baltic, as it's outside the specified grounds.

Edit: there is nothing new about EU member states applying the same rules to visiting craft as they do to residents. Lifejackets in Ireland, for example, or flares in France.
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Your examples are all bad. The MIB requirement does not apply to visiting cars, only to those insurers providing policies in the UK.

UK insurers regularly provide insurance for UK boats visiting or based in other countries - my Greek based boat was insured by Bishop Skinner and accepted by Greece provided the certificate was in Greek. It would also have been valid and accepted in the Baltic if the insurer covered it (which they would if asked).

France do not require visitors to meet French requirements for flares - only require that if you carry them that they should be in date.

It is true that any state can require a visiting boat to comply with their requirements but almost none do but work under the principle of "comity" where they respect the laws of other countries. As ever all explained on the RYA site with the few minor exceptions identified..

BTW nothing to do with the EU - there is no EU rules covering non commercial leisure craft except for free movement, mainly related to VAT.
 
Tranona said:
Your examples are all bad. The MIB requirement does not apply to visiting cars, only to those insurers providing policies in the UK.
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The OP appears to be outraged on two counts: (1) that Denmark may require visitors to have insurance which (2) is provided by a company belonging to a Danish organisation. He seems to think that both of these must be against EU rules.

In fact (1) many, many countries apply rules to visitors as well as to local boats - flares in France, lifejackets in Ireland, carrying copies of the rules in the Netherlands, red diesel in Belgium, licensing in Germany, DEPKA in Greece - and (2) there is nothing new about the requirement for insurance to be provided by a member of a national organisation.

So even if the story is true, there is nothing to take umbrage at. It combines two well-established principles and demonstrates that the EU is far less of a homogenising authority than the hysterical think.
 
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Your reply does not seem to address the quote.

The issue is about insurance and most countries require all boats to be insured (although not the UK). It is nothing to do with the EU, nor are there any countries to my knowledge - at least in Europe who require insurance from a "member of a national organisation" for leisure craft. For my trip back from Greece my insurance covered me for all the coastal states on the way, with local language certificates for Greece, Spain and Portugal.

I agree that if Denmark wants to dictate what insurance is required then it is perfectly entitled to. But again it is nothing to do with the EU for reasons given above.
 
Tranona said:
The issue is about insurance and most countries require all boats to be insured (although not the UK). ... I agree that if Denmark wants to dictate what insurance is required then it is perfectly entitled to. But again it is nothing to do with the EU for reasons given above.
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Exactly. That was my point. Twice.
 
Tranona said:
The issue is about insurance and most countries require all boats to be insured (although not the UK). ... I agree that if Denmark wants to dictate what insurance is required then it is perfectly entitled to. But again it is nothing to do with the EU for reasons given above.
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Exactly. That was my point. Twice.
 
Seven Spades said:
I cannot see how this can possibly be legal. If you have a PWC that is insured by an EU insurer I do not see how they can refuse to recognise that. This regulation flies in the face of competition and stinks of protectionism. I don't have a problem with all powered vessels requiring insurance that's fine but they should recognise insurances issued by other countries. The RYA needs to take this up either at EU level or with our government via their contacts.
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In spite of what people might have you believe the EU does not have a single market in services. The requirement to be insured with a local insurer is legal under EU law.
 
bedouin said:
In spite of what people might have you believe the EU does not have a single market in services. The requirement to be insured with a local insurer is legal under EU law.
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The requirement as reported is for the insurer to be a member of a Danish organisation. Would it be legal to restrict membership to Danish-based companies? I've just had a look at MIB members list, and there are companies in Gibraltar, Malta, Ireland, Denmark, Guernsey, Spain and Norway.
 
JumbleDuck said:
The requirement as reported is for the insurer to be a member of a Danish organisation. Would it be legal to restrict membership to Danish-based companies? I've just had a look at MIB members list, and there are companies in Gibraltar, Malta, Ireland, Denmark, Guernsey, Spain and Norway.
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I believe it would be legal to require the insurer to have a registered office in Denmark and for them to have the same qualifications as are required for locals. I think to discriminate against them by requiring more stringent qualifications or preventing them from opening an office and joining would not be allowed.
 
bedouin said:
I believe it would be legal to require the insurer to have a registered office in Denmark and for them to have the same qualifications as are required for locals. I think to discriminate against them by requiring more stringent qualifications or preventing them from opening an office and joining would not be allowed.
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Danke schön.
 
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