New boat

[Laminar Flow]

Congratulations Mr Tranona on buying a new, to you, both. Being perfectly honest, I can’t understand why anyone would want to trade your Bav for a boat like that (as their only vessel), but, as you have commented on these forums many times, each to their own. Fairs winds.

It could be easily argued that buying a boat, any boat for that matter, is not a rational decision and it is not always about fashion, appearances or even convenience, speed & performance. As such a person's choice is a rather private affair and nobody else's business.
I have to say that his choice of boat, and one so far off fashionable mainstream, actually makes him more likable and not to say, interesting, as a person.

 

[Tranona]

There is a very nice one with a GRP hull in Pontrieux where we keep our boat. I had a long chat with the owner as I used to own a Water Witch by the same designer. I turned out that the gentleman used to build them after acquiring the molds when Erskine closed shop. His had a much taller cutter rig and I believe he increased the ballast to carry it. He claimed it significantly improved her performance and I certainly thought her a very handsome boat and unlike her sister the Water Witch she does have standing headroom.
I would love to hear how yours sails and Congratulations.

That is Mark Urry's boat Sea Devil. I saw it being built when Mark ran GH Marine. As you can see from my other post I first sailed a GH with Mark. He built it from a wood hull and deck from Terry. He started GH Marine with a GRP boat originally called Moonlight, but sold that to build Sea Devil for his retirement. I considered buying sea Devil, but really she is far too sophisticated for me and much more suited to serious sailing. There are also 2 other late GRP boats that have changed hands recently, one built from a hull and deck that was sort of left over from Terry's days which I looked at in a field in Itchenor in 2010 . This was very nicely finished over the next 5 years, but again very sophisticated - cutter rig, bow thruster and all mod cons. Richard Hares boat Kepple which has featured many time in PBO and other mags, built from one of Mark's kits has just found a buyer in France, but again too "modern" for me.

What I like about the boat I am buying is that it is largely original and by today's standards simple but has all the good upgrades such as engine, modern electrics, newish sails (fully battened main), windlass, lines led aft, selftailing winches, modern gas system, but has enough relatively simple things that I can do to improve without taking up too much time and energy. With regard to sailing, pity it does not have the tall rig that Mark designed unlike another I looked at (which was too much of a project), but I will be modifying the rudder similar to Mark's last design to include some balance forward of the pivot. Probably won't do anything else until I have had a year just sailing.

Looking forward to it!

 

[Concerto]

It is funny how the older we get, the more we harp to back to the boats we knew in our earlier sailing days. The satisfaction of having something classic and individual helps you stand out from the many AWBs. Although a modern AWB allows you to sail with little maintenance, they do not have the character of a classic yacht. Having to do some maintenance on a classic yacht can be so thereputic knowing you are preserving it for future generations. Congratulations Tranona in your choice.

 

[Wansworth]

Mine is not cutter rigged, although it does have the stubby bowsprit/anchor platform and an outer stay to fly a lightweight downwind sail.

Noticed over the years quite a few designs have sprung small bowsprit like the hillyard 9 toner and assorted grp yachts of the 1960 which have added a roller jib

 

[Wansworth]

It is funny how the older we get, the more we harp to back to the boats we knew in our earlier sailing days. The satisfaction of having something classic and individual helps you stand out from the many AWBs. Although a modern AWB allows you to sail with little maintenance, they do not have the character of a classic yacht. Having to do some maintenance on a classic yacht can be so thereputic knowing you are preserving it for future generations. Congratulations Tranona in your choice.

My first sea going yacht was 15 foot,I am aspiring to a 23 footer now although I seem to need more space than I did 50years ago?

 

[Laminar Flow]

It is funny how the older we get, the more we harp to back to the boats we knew in our earlier sailing days. The satisfaction of having something classic and individual helps you stand out from the many AWBs. Although a modern AWB allows you to sail with little maintenance, they do not have the character of a classic yacht. Having to do some maintenance on a classic yacht can be so thereputic knowing you are preserving it for future generations. Congratulations Tranona in your choice.

It should be noted that the renowned ocean racer and french sailing hero, Taberly, chose for his last and personal boat a 19th century Fife cutter.
It would seem that even the most cutting edge competitive kevlar and carbon sailors eventually come to their romantic senses.

 

[Tranona]

Noticed over the years quite a few designs have sprung small bowsprit like the hillyard 9 toner and assorted grp yachts of the 1960 which have added a roller jib

Adding a bowsprit was often an attempt to cure weather helm by moving the centre of effort forward to counter the large low aspect mains that were common then. I added a short sprit to my Eventide to move the forestay about 6" and provide a better roller for the anchor.

There are many variations on the theme and of course it is coming back into fashion with today's move toward plumb stems and the need to fly larger light weather offwind sails as far forward as possible.

 

[coopec]

It should be noted that the renowned ocean racer and french sailing hero, Taberly, chose for his last and personal boat a 19th century Fife cutter.
It would seem that even the most cutting edge competitive kevlar and carbon sailors eventually come to their romantic senses.

What are you on about!

Do you really think there is something romantic about this old tub?

Seriously I think things started to go wrong in yacht design in the 1980s. If I had the money I'd go for an older style yacht too like an Island Packet or a Hans Christian.

63ft schooner: John Alden

 

[Laminar Flow]

Seriously I think things started to go wrong in yacht design in the 1980s.

I am not sure how one could draw that line. As far as I am concerned each era has produced outstanding yachts, just as there have been some lemons as well. There are some fine contemporary ones as well. Personally I like to look at the relevant numbers, fitness for purpose and then at style.
While I can admire a boat, such as that Alden schooner, or Tabarly's Pen Duick (I have seen it in the flesh) I do not need to own it and it would, quite frankly, not be part of my reality nor all that practical.
Much like my houses, I shape my boats to meet my needs and I do so quite substantially if needs be. Having a boat that started out perfect or was a living monument such as Pen Duick should be rather boring, I think.

 

[johnalison]

I think that generally, large yachts always display a certain style that smaller ones can’t aspire to, but that the ‘80s saw a great improvement in the design of small to medium yachts. The masthead-rigged and narrow-sterned monstrosities of the ‘70s were nothing much to look at, and the small cruisers that aped racing designs were even worse, with a few honourable exceptions. The ‘80s saw designs such as the Starlights that represented a move towards the more practical and better balanced designs of later years.

 

[doug748]

Bit of drift here but

Here is something to cheer us all up on a Monday morning:

I think Tabarly always owned Pen Duick, in fact he built her. When his father's Fife was ripe beyond repair he took a mould off the hull and proceeded from there. She is usually moored on the Belon river or nearby.
I am sure I have seen a small fleet of similar looking boats in France, perhaps replicas?

.

 

[GregOddity]

Congrats and I hope the survey comes out shining. Having been there in the past for different reasons I can fully understand where you’re coming from. What others see as headaches are actually the things I quite enjoy. The challenge and my own touch are most of the pleasure I have with it. Dated electronics is something that you can easily solve and the pleasure of sailing as you want is worth the trouble. She’s a beautiful boat and wish you all the best with it.

 

[Laminar Flow]

I think that generally, large yachts always display a certain style that smaller ones can’t aspire to, but that the ‘80s saw a great improvement in the design of small to medium yachts. The masthead-rigged and narrow-sterned monstrosities of the ‘70s were nothing much to look at, and the small cruisers that aped racing designs were even worse, with a few honourable exceptions. The ‘80s saw designs such as the Starlights that represented a move towards the more practical and better balanced designs of later years.

I think that is very true.
The potential elegance or style of smaller yachts is much impacted by the need to pack as much square footage of living space as possible onto a given piece of real estate. Without this requirement there have been quite a few "pretty" designs drawn, even in the smaller sizes.
The seventies was a dark time for yacht design, when boats were designed to beat the rule rather than to be ultimately fast, a bit like making perfectly healthy athletes compete wearing leg braces and crutches and the one who can best hamper his/her performance wins. A lot of this nonsense spilled over into the cruiser market. In my neck of the woods Cooper Yachts built what was essentially an IOR racing hull motorsailer with a wheelhouse/decksalon on top, pinched stern and all. The Fastnet tragedy did much to dismantle that approach.
There is no doubt that contemporary design involves much more math and engineering than any traditional design ever saw. Most of that is used to save weight and avoid the unnecessary use of expensive material. It does often make the safety margins slimmer and begs the question if this is necessary or desirable for a cruising design.

 

[sailaboutvic]

@Tranona .
All I can say is best of luck ,
it's a joy to hear your heath is much better and I truly hope you have many years enjoying your new boat .
After over 35 years doing this crusing lark , I can see a time when I be looking for some thing to plot about in .
Good luck mate .

 

[Tranona]

When I was looking for my "ideal" older style wooden boat around 30-33' overall one of the constraints was space. I am 6'3" and built in proportion and obviously the Bavaria has loads of space with 3.5m beam and high topsides. Most older style boats are much narrower, rarely exceeding 3m beam and fine ends and although usually headroom in this length in the centre of the cabin is OK it is often poor clearance towards the sides and ends. So forecabins and toilets are cramped, cabin soles narrow because of the underwater shape and cockpits cramped.

One of the attractions of the GH is the chined hull shape with the beam carried well forward. Even though it is only 2.7m beam, the waterline beam is only a little less. The result is a lot more usable space than the typical deep keel wooden boats of the 60's and 70s. My litmus test is whether I can move about the boat comfortably, sleep in the forecabin and use the loo without contortions. similar test topsides - is access through the companionway easy and can I get to the foredeck to reach the anchor without banging on things along the way. These proportions mean that the design does not have the elegance of say a Holman or a Buchanan design of similar length but does provide more usable volume, as well as looking (to my eyes) a coherent whole.

I don't really have to consider anybody else - my wife stopped sailing when we left Corfu - and the odd times the children and grandchildren come they have to live with what is there!

 

[bitbaltic]

It is funny how the older we get, the more we harp to back to the boats we knew in our earlier sailing days. The satisfaction of having something classic and individual helps you stand out from the many AWBs. Although a modern AWB allows you to sail with little maintenance, they do not have the character of a classic yacht. Having to do some maintenance on a classic yacht can be so thereputic knowing you are preserving it for future generations. Congratulations Tranona in your choice.

When I was a kid (in the 80s) my dad had a 12 ft sailing dinghy and we sailed it in Pembrokeshire when we took our holidays in a caravan. I’ve always been aware that my boat is very intentionally the caravan and dinghy made into one, as a direct line of present day holiday pleasure linked absolutely back to my childhood holidays. But it isn’t, and doesn’t need to be, a 1980s or 1970s boat to achieve that. Pembrokeshire was full of Centaurs when I was a kid but a Hanse gets the same nostalgic result with a better boat owning experience every time.

 

[KompetentKrew]

What are you on about!

Do you really think there is something romantic about this old tub?

Seriously I think things started to go wrong in yacht design in the 1980s. If I had the money I'd go for an older style yacht too like an Island Packet or a Hans Christian.

63ft schooner: John Alden
View attachment 123588

Full album of larger pics of this boat: 63 ft John Alden Schooner 1939

 

[Tranona]

A more modest Alden was top of my list originally. This one boatshed.com/dosearch.php?bq={}&q=alden%20Challenger when it was for sale last year. However the then owner was unrealistic about its condition and therefore the price he wanted. No idea what the current owner paid, but the new asking price is more like I offered last year when the asking price was over twice that!.

Fortunate I am committed to the GH as I could still be tempted, but realistically it is too big and complex plus needs a lot of work and expenditure to get it up to the sort of condition it deserves. Good ones in the States still fetch good money as if they are up together they are easy to live with compared with all wood boats from the same era. A slightly different version of the same design is for sale in Scotland at around £35k in ready to go condition.