New boat vs old boat

[andymcp]

I think the OP has said that the cruising will be two-up, so storage for that is reasonable on all the boats mentioned. Certainly the Elan and X332 are single aft cabins with decent cockpit locker size and plenty stowage for a couple on board. The Elan has 2 under-berth lockers in the aft cabin in addition to one hanging, one drawer and one smaller locker plus shelf the length of the berth. Saloon has 3 lockers under the seats, two lockers above the settees and admittedly smaller stowage around the galley and chart table. Front cabing has large hanging locker plus a cubby behind the door, twin shelves and two large under-berth lockers which we use for sail storage.

If the preference is for using the forecabin as the main sleeping area then the Elan may not suit - the berths there are staggered, not a V-into-a-double arrangement. Having said that, the aft berth is so much larger that assuming it's a couple I'm not sure why you would sleep up front.

 

[Tranona]

Yes, but only in the context of the original short list. I am suggesting that he looks outside that rather eclectic bunch. Read what his requirements are - downsizing for health reasons, two handed cruising. The boats I am suggesting are arguably more appropriate and mostly come with in mast furling.

If, however, sailing performance was high on the agenda and occasional racing anticipated then the short list would be different as would the rig!

Using your car analogy we are not looking at an Aston Martin but a VW Passat with a big diesel engine and comfy seats. Rather appropriately that model is also available as a fastback coupe style if you want to pretend you are sporty!

 

[flaming]

Fair enough, and I would disagree with you, and say that the original list is a very fine list of boats well suited to doublehanded cruising.

Not everyone limits "cruising" boats to what the major manufacturers say is a cruising boat. Some people like to cruise in boats that will actually go upwind.

 

[photodog]

Iota's recomendation of that Westerly 33 looks bang on.... that would be a smokin boat!!!

I will add one thing......

Finngulf 33

GREAT build, fast, fun, seaworthy, this is like a baby swan and would be spot on, a great preformance cruiser... and if you have 100k then this is gonna be pretty close price wise...

The Dufour is a great boat, very well balanced, well screwed togather, very comparable preformance wise to the Elan 333, but a bit better screwed together IMO....

The Najad is a another kettle of fish altogether, and should hold its value better than any of the other boats mentioned.... I suspect that the Dufour and the Elan will continue to depreciate for a time, and the Typhoon as well, versus the Najad will be evergreen... So money spent on the Najad will be well spent...

I would say new or nearly new Finngulf 33 or the Najad are your best bets.

If you want to come down on that price, then that Westerly 33 highlighted by IOTA looks excellent to me...

 

[Tranona]

That got me looking in the listings. You are probably right. Could only find a small handful of boats in the UK that met my suggestions.

I think people who own good boats are not selling as they can't afford anything "better". New boats are not selling so owners of 3/4 year old boats are not trading up. In my search I found two similar Beneteaus. One was 2 years old and around £90k - not much less than it would have cost new. The other was a new boat of same model £130k.

Between 2000 and 2006, the new price of equivalent Bavarias to my 2001 model was pretty stable at around £70k ex VAT. The current equivalent is well over £100k.

Does not take a financial wizard to work out the impact on the market of such changes.

So, suggest many boats that are on the market are there because people can no longer afford them or are exiting the pastime. Indeed some of the boats I have looked at, look like the owners have just walked away!

 

[Saguday]

Being biased towards cruising I'd go for the Najad from the original list.

That Westerly Ocean is gorgeous though.

I am honour bound recommend an Island Packet (wink wink), a 320 or 350 or best of all a 370 )) but they're a bit on the pricey side, depends on what you want. Won't win you any races but great to live on and rock solid (like Najads). Shallow draft too.

 

[robbieg]

Sadly I think with tax and extras a Fingulf 33 is going to cost you North of 120k. Don't see many second hand ones about which must say something.

Robert.

 

[michael_w]

If you are thinking of an X-Yacht, look very carefully at the structure, it isn't that wonderful. Also the blue ones are prone to chalking and the UK after sales service leaves a lot to be desired.

 

[photodog]

I think your probably right.... but one can live in hope!

I was on the point of ordering one a couple of years ago... all up kitted out it was gonna run 97k including VAT.... chickened out in the end as that was stretching a bit....

I have yet to see one second hand... But that is the boat I want... or a Starlight 35.... or maybe a Rustler 36....... hmm, or a Sweden 34..... or maybe ... yada yada yada... /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Judders]

If it were me, I'd be salivating over that Westerly... which is not something I ever expected to type.

 

[photodog]

Yeah, that looks a cracker... I dont understand why the OP hasnt jumped all over it....seems to fit all the boxes..... I would.

I saw it a couple of weeks ago online and I'm surprised its still available... could this actually be because its a Westerly?? Unfortunaltey every one I have looked at used has always been a bit manky....

 

[robbieg]

Umm similar list to me

 

[Tranona]

Yes, what it says is the market for sporty 33 footers at equivalent of £120k is small, so very few are produced therefore few make it onto the SH market. Also suspect that owners hold on to them because they like them!

 

[Tranona]

'Tis indeed a nice boat, but it was built during one of the periods when the Westerly name was being "ressurected" and not a commercial success.

However, remember looking at them when new and they were in a higher league than some of the earlier models and priced accordingly.

Being relatively young it should not suffer from the age related problems many earlier boats have.

 

[Iota]

I looked at it and it is everything it says in the listings. My higher authority did not want to go back to tiller steering and the tankage is on the low side - but easy to address I hasten to add. I also have an aversion to blue hulls, but it does seem to meet the OP's requirements. He once had a Storm so this is really the next generation. The Jeanneau SO35 we have bought will meet our needs but the OP could buy the Westerly and add some nice bits so it meets his requirements exactly

 

[dt4134]

I've direct experience of sailing on three of those five (Dufour 34, X332 & Najad 331).

As a pure cruising boat the Najad is a very nice boat. She feels very good in heavy weather. I've taken several novice crew out in F7-F8 on one on a number of occasions and they've enjoyed the experience. She's not as slow as people think, but I wouldn't expect her to be raced & you'd have to accept that in light airs <F2 you'd probably want to motor. Too good a sailing boat to have in mast reefing - in fact I remember that I particularly liked the reefing arrangements with a handle built into the winch at the mast.

The X332 is a wonderful boat. You can race competitively and she's a good cruiser. Everything just feels like it was designed by someone who knew how to sail. She can be managed in heavy weather if you know what you're doing but she'd not be an offshore cruiser.

I found the Dufour 34 to be pretty quick and with a better layout could probably be raced well. I just found too many irritating features. I remember the mainsheet snagging the genny winches a couple of times. The pulpit was particularly irritating as the genny masked the nav lights at night and you often had to send someone forward to skirt the sail over it when tacking. Irritating enough having the crew weight on the bow for that when racing but cruising crew quickly get fed up with it. Off close hauled you couldn't do anything to avoid the nav lights being masked, except role up the genny. I didn't think the fit out below was good quality either, IMHO sub-Bavaria on the boat I sailed.

 

[youen]

Thanks all .I visit the Ocean 33 in Hamble last week but I was disappointed because the headlinings was already sagging and the scarf of the teak around the boat was already open as on my last Storm and there was not a lot of lockers.I saw 2 afloat in Haslar Marina and I dont like how they look with their high freeboard in particular at the bow and they have no anchor well.

 

[jonjo]

[ QUOTE ]
I found the Dufour 34 to be pretty quick and with a better layout could probably be raced well. I just found too many irritating features. ... I didn't think the fit out below was good quality either, IMHO sub-Bavaria on the boat I sailed.

[/ QUOTE ]
This illustrates the trouble with generalized statements about brand quality, as the years tick by once good companies loose the plot both in terms of design and quality. I think your assessment is correct but other pro Dufour comments seem to be based on the Dufour from many years ago.

Today's Dufour is low in the pecking order along with most of the volume builders. In the last year or two Dufour has completely lost the plot in the design department. The cockpit of the 34 appears to be constructed from sharp rectangular blocks arranged onto a flush after deck. It probably looked cool on the designer's CAD screen when populated with the rectangular human shapes offered by the design package.

 

[photodog]

Ok, I am gonna sugest something....

here are the specs..

CE Cat A
German Lloyds supervised and certified
35 feet long
Fractional rig
2 or 3 cabins
1.9 meter draft
dark mahogany interior
very reliable electrics
saildrive
moderateish dispalcement
Better build than current dufours or elans.
big chart table
easy to single hand
big anchor well
9-10 years old
More cruiser than racer
easy cross atlantic capable
very sensible and traditional layout


This one is in-mast, but easy to find with a FB main...
Price is typical.


Go and have a look at one.... I dare you. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[dunedin]

[/ QUOTE ] Anyone putting in-mast furling on an X332, Elan 333 or dufour 34 deserves to be shot.
That really is like deciding to buy an Aston Martin but specifying the engine from a fiesta.

[/ QUOTE ]

Seconded !

All of these are three great sailing boats - good shortlist