youen
Member
What is your choice if you have to choose between a 3 years old Dufour 34 or Elan 333 per ex and a 10 years Nordic boat like X 332 or Najad 331 or a bit older Westerly Typhoon.Thanks
New boat vs old boat
- Thread starter youen
- Start date
Judders
Active member
With all old boats, it depends on the specific boat.
On face value, I suspect that X332 will have been razzed to death so I'd plump for the Elan. The Najad will be the better boat but I'd like to do a little racing and the Elan 333 is much under rated in that respect.
If we are strictly cruising however, I'd take a very close look at the Najad.
On face value, I suspect that X332 will have been razzed to death so I'd plump for the Elan. The Najad will be the better boat but I'd like to do a little racing and the Elan 333 is much under rated in that respect.
If we are strictly cruising however, I'd take a very close look at the Najad.
ChrisE
Active member
I guess that the question is "What do want to use it for?"
A boat like the Elan is fleet of foot and highly manouverable but probably wouldn't be my first choice for an offshore crusing boat whereas the Najad is bit less fleet of foot but a great sea-kindly craft.
My own choice would be the Najad but then I'm not interested in racing round the cans more comfortable long distance stuff.
A boat like the Elan is fleet of foot and highly manouverable but probably wouldn't be my first choice for an offshore crusing boat whereas the Najad is bit less fleet of foot but a great sea-kindly craft.
My own choice would be the Najad but then I'm not interested in racing round the cans more comfortable long distance stuff.
flaming
Well-known member
That's a very good list of boats to pick from!
I think it would depend a lot on the exact condition of the boat. An X332 in good nick for the right price would be hard to turn down. But the Elan 333 is equally as good a sailing boat, just without the Scandinavian heritage.
Dufour 34 edges more towards the cruising side, a bit like the Najad.
Budget into the equation for replacing instruments on the older boats where necessary and see where that gets you.
I think it would depend a lot on the exact condition of the boat. An X332 in good nick for the right price would be hard to turn down. But the Elan 333 is equally as good a sailing boat, just without the Scandinavian heritage.
Dufour 34 edges more towards the cruising side, a bit like the Najad.
Budget into the equation for replacing instruments on the older boats where necessary and see where that gets you.
Judders
Active member
I know an X332 of that vintage that is for sale currently. I'd be factoring in new rigging as well, not to mention wanting to have a very serious look at the chainplates.
And that is before the new sails, but then we don't know about the use. Whilst Flaming and I would be straight down to the sailmaker, that is not necessarilly typical.
And that is before the new sails, but then we don't know about the use. Whilst Flaming and I would be straight down to the sailmaker, that is not necessarilly typical.
Tranona
Well-known member
There is no answer. Ignoring the racing orientated boats you can draw up some general pros and cons
Modern boats
Lighter displacement, higher performance easier to sail, more space, newer equipment, less chance of remedial work, more stylish (subjective). Better designed and built.
Older boats
Heavier displacement, more variable condition, more chance of remedial work, old equipment, sometimes cramped, not always as well built as they seem. arguably greater choice of types and styles.
To me it is more important to consider what you want to do with the boat - where it will be used, and to an extent how much time you want to spend keeping the boat running.
So, I have a Bavaria 37 in the Med because it is suited to the pattern of usage there and requires little maintenance or repairs. If I were buying a similar size boat for use in the English Channel, it would not be top of my list. For similar money I could get a 34-36ft centre cockpit boat such as a Moody or a Westerly from the 1980's, but be prepared for osmosis and possible fairly large bills to bring it up to my spec.
So, to me the starting point is my preferences and budget and then scoring potential boats against them. You very quickly get a short list and if that includes older and newer boats that will equally meet the main requirements, then I would go for the newer one every time.
I have actually been through the exercise as have been thinking of selling the Bavaria and buying a boat here, but have been depressed by how poor the 1980's boats are when they come on the market. I have only seen one that I would have bought and that sold the day it went on the market for the top asking price. Most older boats require money and work so the asking price is only a starting point.
Modern boats
Lighter displacement, higher performance easier to sail, more space, newer equipment, less chance of remedial work, more stylish (subjective). Better designed and built.
Older boats
Heavier displacement, more variable condition, more chance of remedial work, old equipment, sometimes cramped, not always as well built as they seem. arguably greater choice of types and styles.
To me it is more important to consider what you want to do with the boat - where it will be used, and to an extent how much time you want to spend keeping the boat running.
So, I have a Bavaria 37 in the Med because it is suited to the pattern of usage there and requires little maintenance or repairs. If I were buying a similar size boat for use in the English Channel, it would not be top of my list. For similar money I could get a 34-36ft centre cockpit boat such as a Moody or a Westerly from the 1980's, but be prepared for osmosis and possible fairly large bills to bring it up to my spec.
So, to me the starting point is my preferences and budget and then scoring potential boats against them. You very quickly get a short list and if that includes older and newer boats that will equally meet the main requirements, then I would go for the newer one every time.
I have actually been through the exercise as have been thinking of selling the Bavaria and buying a boat here, but have been depressed by how poor the 1980's boats are when they come on the market. I have only seen one that I would have bought and that sold the day it went on the market for the top asking price. Most older boats require money and work so the asking price is only a starting point.
youen
Member
My sailing program is cruising double handed in Brittany and Galicia .I am used to good quality boat ,my last boat was a Swan 41 and before a Storm 33.I must undersize for health reason and want a fractional rigged and stiff well built boat with good performance .My budget is around 100000 Sterling with all the work done on the boat.It is not easy to find a new boat its why i ask all these questions and need your help
youen
Member
I am like Tranona and very depressed after looking at ten years old boat, you have every thing to change and when you have added the price to update the boat to the asking price it cost a lot of money for and old boat
My heart bleeds for anyone that has only got a £100000 to spend on a boat,just make sure you consider a good bilge keeler /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
I
Iota
Guest
Based on what you have posted I would have thought something like
http://uk.yachtworld.com/core/listing/bo...=35144&url=
http://uk.yachtworld.com/core/listing/bo...=35144&url=
Tranona
Well-known member
With that kind of budget and usage it has to be a new or nearly new boat.
I can understand the potential resistance to a Bavaria, Elan, Benny etc after a Swan, but many people have made the switch. Quality is fitness for purpose, and although production boats have not had hours of hand work put into them, they are well designed and built.
If you have not done so already, invest in a couple of week's charter in a modern boat such as a Benny 373 Jeanneau 37 or Dufour 365. All of these could be bought 3/4 years old well within budget. Next size down get a bit cramped as they still try to fit in the same number of cabins.
I think you will be surprised at how capable they are. I would go for in mast furling and accept the slight loss of sail area in return for the flexibility and ease of handling.
They stand up to hard usage very well, which is why the charter companies like them. My Bavaria after 7 years chartering and in its second year of private use is in far better condition than any older "quality" boat I have looked at.
Hope this helps
I can understand the potential resistance to a Bavaria, Elan, Benny etc after a Swan, but many people have made the switch. Quality is fitness for purpose, and although production boats have not had hours of hand work put into them, they are well designed and built.
If you have not done so already, invest in a couple of week's charter in a modern boat such as a Benny 373 Jeanneau 37 or Dufour 365. All of these could be bought 3/4 years old well within budget. Next size down get a bit cramped as they still try to fit in the same number of cabins.
I think you will be surprised at how capable they are. I would go for in mast furling and accept the slight loss of sail area in return for the flexibility and ease of handling.
They stand up to hard usage very well, which is why the charter companies like them. My Bavaria after 7 years chartering and in its second year of private use is in far better condition than any older "quality" boat I have looked at.
Hope this helps
Sailfree
Well-known member
I agree with Tranona.
Its a buyers market at present and the marine Industry is crap for reliability so having bought 3 new boats and spent the 1st year getting the defects fixed (mostly fitting out defects from UK yards) I would go for a distress sale newish boat say 1-2 years old.
Its a buyers market at present and the marine Industry is crap for reliability so having bought 3 new boats and spent the 1st year getting the defects fixed (mostly fitting out defects from UK yards) I would go for a distress sale newish boat say 1-2 years old.
Twister_Ken
Well-known member
"Its a buyers market"
Actually, it's not for sought-after boats in good nick. They go quickly and for close to asking. Tat is where the buyer's market exists.
Actually, it's not for sought-after boats in good nick. They go quickly and for close to asking. Tat is where the buyer's market exists.
I
Iota
Guest
I agree having decided to downsize from a Moody and having sold it then every boat we looked liked thought about for about a week had gone....We have bought a 2003 Jeanneu SO 35. I, with capable crew, delivered from the Solent to Devon last Friday / Saturday. It exceed expectations. I had been a bit sniffy about them until then. The SO37 is a very good boat but exceeded the parameters for my mooring. For somebody buying from the Eurozone they are very good value
flaming
Well-known member
[ QUOTE ]
I would go for in mast furling and accept the slight loss of sail area in return for the flexibility and ease of handling.
[/ QUOTE ]
Anyone putting in-mast furling on an X332, Elan 333 or dufour 34 deserves to be shot.
That really is like deciding to buy an Aston Martin but specifying the engine from a fiesta.
I would go for in mast furling and accept the slight loss of sail area in return for the flexibility and ease of handling.
[/ QUOTE ]
Anyone putting in-mast furling on an X332, Elan 333 or dufour 34 deserves to be shot.
That really is like deciding to buy an Aston Martin but specifying the engine from a fiesta.
Slow_boat
New member
It seems a bit daft to have to buy a three cabin 6 berth boat for two people to sail. Is there nothing of similar size designed for two people with an occassional guest cabin/berth?
andymcp
New member
I have an obvious bias, but I'd recommend the Elan 333. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Tranona
Well-known member
Hi! Here we go again. I was not for one moment suggesting putting a furling main on a performance boat. Please look at the boats I was talking about, where in fact you would probably find it difficult to buy one without a furling main!
Tranona
Well-known member
Most of the boats I have suggested are available with either one or two aft cabins. However, the twin aft cabin are more popular because of the extra flexibility. We have "converted" one of our aft cabins into part storage and single berth. Storage is in fact one area where these boats are deficient because of the shallow hulls and emphasis on open spaces down below so for cruising they are maximum 4 berths if you like comfort.
flaming
Well-known member
Well, the OP's list of original boats are all (with the possible exception of the Najad) performance boats.
In that context mentioning in mast furling is daft.
In that context mentioning in mast furling is daft.
