New boat (maybe) Azimut 55, 2003

[jfm]

good luck Adey, looks like a nice boat!
no idea on surveying costs (never used one and tbh don't know anyone that has used a surveyor down here, not sure they even exist in Greece, ppl just take their mechanic for an engine/geny check!)

Got a Q though: does surveying (no matter how expensive or cheap) gives the prospective owner anything more than the peace of mind that the report gives (and a haggling space for repairs/updates)?
I mean heaven forbid, something surveyor misses that soon after ownership brings up a nice big bill, can owner claim and get some money back from him or his professional insurance or whatever? Or does he simply get in a pointless expensive legal battle?

Sorry, not implying something like that does happen, just curious as I see you lot being v.keen on surveying and guess there is a reason.

cheers

V.

Vas, as you know from other chat, not everyone is keen on using a surveyor in a purchase transaction
For those who choose it, a survey gives a list of easily noticed items and price chip ammunition (though, again, it is not the only way to chip a price ). If a hidden defect emerges after purchase, firstly you would need to prove actual negligence on the part of the surevyor, and second the surveyor will typically have protection in the contract so you can't sue them to death.

 

[jfm]

It’s all immaterial now. The seller has changed his mind about selling!
The broker said he did the same thing a few months ago with another buyer and not to waste any more time on him.

Oh, bad luck.

 

[benjenbav]

It’s all immaterial now. The seller has changed his mind about selling!
The broker said he did the same thing a few months ago with another buyer and not to waste any more time on him.

That’s a shame. More fish in the sea, tho’

 

[vas]

Vas, as you know from other chat, not everyone is keen on using a surveyor in a purchase transaction
For those who choose it, a survey gives a list of easily noticed items and price chip ammunition (though, again, it is not the only way to chip a price ). If a hidden defect emerges after purchase, firstly you would need to prove actual negligence on the part of the surevyor, and second the surveyor will typically have protection in the contract so you can't sue them to death.

thanks J,
yes I get it that on s/h IT boats with a price tag over a couple of mil survey is not necessary, makes sense

Re peace of mind, that was my understanding otherwise there would be no surveyors out of prison

 

[Portofino]

Would it be practicable to look at the exhausts with an endoscopic camera?

Glad you have re ignited this Ben .

I know I went over most heads with my first post .
pic paints a 1000 words from the vid .
Note the hole in this elbow .Elbow MapishM not the long metal horizontal piece .

Hence my suggestion.
I bet a previous buyer has endoscopes through the 10 mm inspection hole there or there abouts of that hole .Or it’s burnt through as Vas intimated ?

As far as Brit stiff upper lip surveys go in the “south “ …..as others has intimated .Adding I wonder if this has spooked all concerned ? The broker has just diplomatically used that story he’s peddled to Adey in a polite way to say Foxtrat Oscar .

It will sell .

 

[MapisM]

Note the hole in this elbow. Elbow MapishM not the long metal horizontal piece.

Lord, give me strength - that's not a hole!
It's just one of the small knobs welded in the longish dry section of these pipes, to keep the heat shield from moving/sliding with vibrations.
You can see them also in the stbd engine elbow, at the beginning of the video.

Regardless, did you miss last Adey's post? Any further debate is pointless, I reckon.

 

[Portofino]

Lord, give me strength - that's not a hole!
It's just one of the small knobs welded in the longish dry section of these pipes, to keep the heat shield from moving/sliding with vibrations.
You can see them also in the stbd engine elbow, at the beginning of the video.

Regardless, did you miss last Adey's post? Any further debate is pointless, I reckon.

Why is it not covered then with the self adhesive wrap was applied ?
Who wraps that so clinically to leave it like that ?

They are holes as i suggested and as I said need further investigation(s) at that point in the time line . Or are witness marks of recent investigation?


Yes I saw Adeys post FWIW ? Now it’s all academic obviously.

But there will be other ER vids of other projects for us to mull over and if requested by the OP comment .

 

[MapisM]

Fairenuff Porto, if you say it's a hole, it's a hole.
Adey should consider himself lucky for having dodged a bullet.

 

[Portofino]

Fairenuff Porto, if you say it's a hole, it's a hole.
Adey should consider himself lucky for having dodged a bullet.

Not really .

All I initially said was “
Answering the Q in post #3 .
You might want to have the exhaust elbows unwrapped to inspect there state .“

” might “

I would have ideally or at the very min entered into a conversation .They are easy to re wrap up it’s just cloth then that sticky back silver foil tape .Tying in with Bens ( sensible ) Q there will be inspection ports behind somewhere anyhow .

Each to there own due diligence.As said forensically I noticed the “holes “ or what ever they are uncovered by the wrap .
Who wraps like that ? …..remains unanswered it seems ,

 

[Hurricane]

Vas, as you know from other chat, not everyone is keen on using a surveyor in a purchase transaction
For those who choose it, a survey gives a list of easily noticed items and price chip ammunition (though, again, it is not the only way to chip a price ). If a hidden defect emerges after purchase, firstly you would need to prove actual negligence on the part of the surevyor, and second the surveyor will typically have protection in the contract so you can't sue them to death.

Bad luck Adey

Just a point on surveys.
When we bought our first boat, we were very new to this kind of sale so we appointed a surveyor.

That surveyor saved us his fee many times over when we went back to re-negotiate the deal.
That boat had been unloved and needed money spending to bring it back.
Our naivety at the time and the appointment of a surveyor probably contributed to our enjoyment of boating now.

Would I appoint a surveyor now?
I don't know.
Bearing in mind the experience that we find on this forum, I might just risk it - I have a lot more experience now.
But it is always the things that I don't know that would worry me.
And, of course, you don't know what "you don't know".

 

[jakew009]

Bad luck Adey

Just a point on surveys.
When we bought our first boat, we were very new to this kind of sale so we appointed a surveyor.

That surveyor saved us his fee many times over when we went back to re-negotiate the deal.
That boat had been unloved and needed money spending to bring it back.
Our naivety at the time and the appointment of a surveyor probably contributed to our enjoyment of boating now.

Would I appoint a surveyor now?
I don't know.
Bearing in mind the experience that we find on this forum, I might just risk it - I have a lot more experience now.
But it is always the things that I don't know that would worry me.
And, of course, you don't know what "you don't know".

Going to see a boat for the first time armed with your mobile banking app ready to complete immediately and take the boat away free of any surveys or encumbrances is also a pretty effective way of getting an absolutely brutal offer on a boat accepted.

It’s also an effective (if somewhat nefarious) way of poaching a deal from another buyer who’s dilly dallying around waiting for surveys, or indeed dealing with a seller who’s sitting on the fence (not suggesting that @adey did anything wrong in this case at all).

 

[Sticky Fingers]

I know of at least one recent transaction that was done with similar chutzpah. Quite sizeable too. Admirable level of steel balls.

 

[adey]

I don’t think wanting a survey was the issue. We all went for a coffee after the viewing and everything seemed ok. A survey was brought up and wasn’t an issue. The owner wanted the boat out of the water this week anyway so us paying for a lift and scrub would be better for him.
We discussed the plumbing and us ripping everything out at our cost. A doubt a survey would have found much else and we need one for insurance anyway.
I’m sure Porto is wrong about the hole. The owner didn’t strike me as a penny pincher. All the batteries were replaced last year so maybe a technician snagged the insulation. Who knows. Even replacing the exhaust wouldn’t be a deal breaker.
The only thing I can think of was the time required to remove the Italian flag with associated hassle. Maybe he figures it’s not worth dealing with a Brit. Maybe deep down he doesn’t really want to sell.
He and the broker seem to have fallen out big time over it.
If you enjoy engine room videos, this is the one with the Seakeeper. This is the broker’s video as it sold after we’d arranged flights etc to view it. (Also South Italy!)

 

[Portofino]

Hey I just said those exhausts “ might “ need a further look at .That’s all .
You reached out for comments .

Irradiation of the flag isn't a deal breaker .Having bought a IT boat and gone through it it’s ridiculously easy and hassle free .

Your battery rub explanation - Nah !

Dead batts are a show stopper and consumables , bit like saying with a car sale “ he replaced a punctured tyre it’s new one “ So what , who drives a car and try’s to sell it on 3 wheels and who can start a big engined boat with sick batts ?

Good luck going Fwds .Something will come up .

Re survey .
In my experience insurance surveys the 20 yr thingy or what ever reason in Italy are low key none invasive things , A few hundred euro .They even use your pics of the last time it was hauled saving that .
.
Far more for giving than a Brit buyers survey , which lets face it the buyer at the very least wants to recover the fee .
So it’s a automatic £4K off plus anything else trawled up .Argy bargy of arguments.

Its hard over a coffee for them to refuse an insurance survey job , esp if the broker has a local in mind .All the wheels will be oiled .Everyone gets the bit of paper to proceed , the buyer insuring it and the sale completes .
How ever later if that’s turned into a full flying in Brit haul job out looking for chip material on an agreed price then you risk spooking them and the sale falling through.

Can I ask did you tell them prior to viewing that there was gonna be a £4 K survey ? hanging over them if you agreed to buy it ? .You gonna fly a Brit in ?

Not sure dropping it on them when it’s all smiles during a coffee is sensible imho ….extensive experience dealing with Italians .

 

[MapisM]

If you enjoy engine room videos, this is the one with the Seakeeper.

Interesting to see that the dry section of the exhaust is different in this boat.
My guess is that in this one it was already rebuilt, while the boat where your deal aborted still had the OEM setup.
Do you possibly know the year/engine hours of both?
That could give a ballpark idea of how long those pipes can be expected to last, because if there's one thing I'm sure of is that "forever" is not an option!
Anyway, I fully agree that this alone ain't a deal breaker, on a boat like this.

On a separate note, here's another thought, just in case you may find another boat in Italy.
I would agree with Portofino (for a change...! ) that the scenario he's envisaging is somewhat realistic.
I mean, if the broker had another local buyer interested, maybe just a bit more distant than yourself from the asking price, he might well have agreed with the seller to get in touch with him to finalize a "simpler" deal.
In fact, in Italy surveys are nowhere near as popular as in the UK.
BUT, this is a dilemma with no solution, because either you feel confident enough of your own judgement to follow the route jakew009 is suggesting, or you aren't. And if you aren't, you obviously want a thorough, professional opinion on the boat, and in this respect I rest my case ref. local surveyors being a waste of money.
BTW, I put my money where my mouth is, because the boat I eventually bought is in the same ballpark (type/size/age/cost) of that Azi55, and I had no survey on her, aside from an engines inspection from an official dealer.
Then again, I fully understand anyone who wouldn't feel comfortable with this approach!