New boat - antifoul?

[Hot Property]

Did you keep it on a trailer? If so how did you touch up the damage?

A trailer won’t damage Coppercoat it will withstand 20 years of launching and recovery for the OP.

I had a lift and hold at the boatyard to touch up which also saved cash as I serviced the engine at the same time.

Non toxic unlike traditional antifouling.

Legislation is coming down the pipe that will eventually ban poisons in antifoul so this is the future for many boat types....

 

[Elessar]

I had a lift and hold at the boatyard to touch up which also saved cash as I serviced the engine at the same time.

Non toxic unlike traditional antifouling.

Legislation is coming down the pipe that will eventually ban poisons in antifoul so this is the future for many boat types....

Agreed to all of that. Coppercoat is non leeching essentially so will survive the legislation too.

You don’t keep it on a trailer and I don’t think silicone antifouling will survive a trailer. Coppercoat is proven to.

 

[Daydream believer]

So why did it collect on the first 1/4” of Coppercoat and the rest of the Coppercoat is clean. Don’t blame the Coppercoat when the application is the problem.

First - If you are referring to the bit above the waterline it does not have weed because A) It is not in the water & B) it is not 1/4 inch thich it is about 3 inches then it goes to silt barnacles & weed growth of a different kind.I had already brushed it off 2 weeks before that picture. I did have pictures of it 8 inches long
Finally- the boat has had 2 applications of coppercoat & the second was no better than the first. I cannot accept application was wrong twice.
I also have a Squib, which had a different copper finish & that performed better than the Squibs on our moorings that were professionally coated by different companies. None of them lasted more than 4 weeks before requiring a scrub. Except mine that would last marginally longer. But that was for racing, so not quite relevant to cruising one might argue.

I wish that I had been able to show you the hull that was jet washed today. the weed BELOW the waterline on the UNDERSIDE of the hull was up to 2 inches long on the greater part of the hull
One might have thought there had been no antifoul at all on the hull. I had coated the keel in Shogun 33 & apart form the bottom 15 inches that settles in the mud at the marina it was pretty clean. Certainly put the coppercoat to shame.
The comment from the staff doing the washing was that coppercoat does not generally work on the east coast & a number of owners have reverted to traditional antifoul paint. A similar comment was made when the boat was jet washed by Billy Hibbs ( Ex RNLI coxswain) in St Helier when he said it was not much use.

 

[Elessar]

Don’t know what you’ve done wrong then.

Year in the water. Coppercoat on left. International trilux on the trim tab on the right.

 

[Daydream believer]

The trilux on the saildrive had a light smear of brown staining. Quite acceptable in my opinion. It has always performed OK.

 

[Spyros]

First - If you are referring to the bit above the waterline it does not have weed because A) It is not in the water & B) it is not 1/4 inch thich it is about 3 inches then it goes to silt barnacles & weed growth of a different kind.I had already brushed it off 2 weeks before that picture. I did have pictures of it 8 inches long
Finally- the boat has had 2 applications of coppercoat & the second was no better than the first. I cannot accept application was wrong twice.
I also have a Squib, which had a different copper finish & that performed better than the Squibs on our moorings that were professionally coated by different companies. None of them lasted more than 4 weeks before requiring a scrub. Except mine that would last marginally longer. But that was for racing, so not quite relevant to cruising one might argue.

I wish that I had been able to show you the hull that was jet washed today. the weed BELOW the waterline on the UNDERSIDE of the hull was up to 2 inches long on the greater part of the hull
One might have thought there had been no antifoul at all on the hull. I had coated the keel in Shogun 33 & apart form the bottom 15 inches that settles in the mud at the marina it was pretty clean. Certainly put the coppercoat to shame.
The comment from the staff doing the washing was that coppercoat does not generally work on the east coast & a number of owners have reverted to traditional antifoul paint. A similar comment was made when the boat was jet washed by Billy Hibbs ( Ex RNLI coxswain) in St Helier when he said it was not much use.

Maybe it was not applied correctly? It needs to be sanded after it dries to work otherwise copper is not exposed to do its job.

 

[Daydream believer]

Maybe it was not applied correctly? It needs to be sanded after it dries to work otherwise copper is not exposed to do its job.

Really??? I never thought of that
Or did I?

 

[Spyros]

Really??? I never thought of that
Or did I?

Ok, and why does it fail then? My poor mind says it is just an epoxy and copper powder.. I’ve seen many pictures and tests where it seems to work fine and many positive feedback from happy customers.

 

[Daydream believer]

Ok, and why does it fail then? My poor mind says it is just an epoxy and copper powder.. I’ve seen many pictures and tests where it seems to work fine and many positive feedback from happy customers.

On this forum many will say it does not work. You have to remember that some say a particular antifoul works. However, their standards may be pretty low to start with.
I have had my boat mid season jet washed in Burnham, Shotley, Cherbourg, Dover, St Helier & Inverness. All because those are the places , either near to me or where performance was so bad I had to have it cleaned. The people doing the jet washing see the hulls of copper coated boats all the time. I have not spoken to one who is impressed with the product. Several say it is just as bad as my boat & that owners have the same problem. Just look at forum comments & see for yourself. I have a friend who says his is Ok.( bought new through Inspiration Marine so presumably applied by professionals) But he still jetwashes mid season as well as at the start. Another, also bought new through the same broker, says it is certainly not as good as some traditional antifoul, but saves the labour & on going cost. His boat sits in the marina most of the time

 

[Elessar]

On this forum many will say it does not work. You have to remember that some say a particular antifoul works. However, their standards may be pretty low to start with.
I have had my boat mid season jet washed in Burnham, Shotley, Cherbourg, Dover, St Helier & Inverness. All because those are the places , either near to me or where performance was so bad I had to have it cleaned. The people doing the jet washing see the hulls of copper coated boats all the time. I have not spoken to one who is impressed with the product. Several say it is just as bad as my boat & that owners have the same problem. Just look at forum comments & see for yourself. I have a friend who says his is Ok.( bought new through Inspiration Marine so presumably applied by professionals) But he still jetwashes mid season as well as at the start. Another, also bought new through the same broker, says it is certainly not as good as some traditional antifoul, but saves the labour & on going cost. His boat sits in the marina most of the time

All those anecdotes.
Then look at my picture in #24.
It shows that correctly applied Coppercoat works.

 

[Daydream believer]

All those anecdotes.
Then look at my picture in #24.
It shows that correctly applied Coppercoat works.

So the dozens of boats that have had professionally applied coppercoat have had it wongly applied. Fair point. All those companies are incapable of applying it properly. That tells me that the product is not actually a workable solution then. Because very few can apply it, as you suggest it should be applied. Or it is only a question of luck that it works.
By the way, I lost my rudder in a grounding in Inverness. The new rudder was coated prior to fitting by the marina company (Cally Marine) that replaced the rudder for me . It is little better than the rest of the boat when hauled out yesterday. Although it did not have the long weed growth. Perhaps they are cowboys at applying coppercoat as well.

 

[Elessar]

No luck required. Just need to RTFM.

 

[julians]

No luck required. Just need to RTFM.

Coppercoat seems to be an odd product, if you do a search on the internet there are many many tales that match daydream believers experience of it not working, but then there are people like yourself (elessar) for whom it obviously and demonstrably does work.

From the descriptions I've read, a lot of the examples of it not working were either applied by professionals or DIY but religiously following the instructions by the manufacturer of coppercoat (some even re applied it, or sanded it again etc ) - so the reason it doesnt work for these people cant just be down to poor application, there must be something more to it - perhaps its environmental - ie different areas have different types of growth and some respond better to coppercoat than others? I dunno - but the fact that whether coppercoat will work for you seems so hit and miss is enough to make me stick with more normal antifoul for now, until coppercoat starts to perform more consistently across different people uses of it.

Maybe I should paint an old bit of GRP half covered with traditional antifoul and the other half coppercoat and dangle it from my mooring for 12 months and see how it does - just to see whether coppercoat might work for me?

 

[Daydream believer]

No luck required. Just need to RTFM.

Actually TFM was wrong the first time I applied the first lot. I had the boat jet washed in St Helier & rang the manufacturer & complained that it had not worked. They asked if I had abraided it. I said that I had not. They said (it turned out it made no difference) that this was the problem. I pointed out that they had sent a CD with a video (or was it a link to a video I cannot recall?) and a written manual of the process. One of them- The one I followed -omitted to mention the abrading. They apologised & said it was an accidental omission
So yes -but TFM needs to be correct in the first instance, my friend.

I also queried the problem at the following London boat show & have never met such a pompous "£$%^ in all my life. Just a case of - " Our product works so F off attitude". No suggestions how to help- nothing.

However, in all fairness-I do admit that a phone call to their MD a couple of years later, received a totally different response & considerable help, which resulted in me applying a further coat. So I would like to think that I had a bad salesman at the show.

 

[Daydream believer]

Maybe I should paint an old bit of GRP half covered with traditional antifoul and the other half coppercoat and dangle it from my mooring for 12 months and see how it does - just to see whether coppercoat might work for me?

Do what one of our club members did. He had rusty bilge keels so had them shot blasted & epoxy primed immediately after blasting. He then applied coppercoat to the keels only, to avoid too much expense. After a year's trial he went back to conventional antifoul paint.

 

[Elessar]

Coppercoat seems to be an odd product, if you do a search on the internet there are many many tales that match daydream believers experience of it not working, but then there are people like yourself (elessar) for whom it obviously and demonstrably does work.

From the descriptions I've read, a lot of the examples of it not working were either applied by professionals or DIY but religiously following the instructions by the manufacturer of coppercoat (some even re applied it, or sanded it again etc ) - so the reason it doesnt work for these people cant just be down to poor application, there must be something more to it - perhaps its environmental - ie different areas have different types of growth and some respond better to coppercoat than others? I dunno - but the fact that whether coppercoat will work for you seems so hit and miss is enough to make me stick with more normal antifoul for now, until coppercoat starts to perform more consistently across different people uses of it.

Maybe I should paint an old bit of GRP half covered with traditional antifoul and the other half coppercoat and dangle it from my mooring for 12 months and see how it does - just to see whether coppercoat might work for me?

Don’t bother. Just look at my picture above.
Anecdotes v evidence.

 

[Daydream believer]

;;;

 

[julians]

Don’t bother. Just look at my picture above.
Anecdotes v evidence.

Yours is also just an anecdote - the people who say it doesnt work for them have the same evidence as you do - ie photos showing it doesnt work.

It obviously works for you (and others ) - your evidence proves that, and there is no dispute - but it also obviously doesnt work for many others, there is no dispute about that either, because they have photos of badly fouled hulls .

What I dont know is why it works for some and not others - it cant just be down to poor application.

Anyway - I can sense this is going to get heated, so no more comments on coppercoat from me.

 

[Daydream believer]

Anecdotes v evidence.

I agree. Look at the evidence after 6 weeks - I wanted to race so had the boat slipped. Nothing like last Monday though.

 

[Elessar]

Yours is also just an anecdote - the people who say it doesnt work for them have the same evidence as you do - ie photos showing it doesnt work.

It obviously works for you (and others ) - your evidence proves that, and there is no dispute - but it also obviously doesnt work for many others, there is no dispute about that either, because they have photos of badly fouled hulls .

What I dont know is why it works for some and not others - it cant just be down to poor application.

Anyway - I can sense this is going to get heated, so no more comments on coppercoat from me.

The shape size and purity of the copper and the formulation of the bespoke epoxy is all checked for every batch and hasn’t changed in over 20 years.
So if it really isn’t working it is either application or another external factor.

Furthermore…..
I note you have no hard growth just light slimy weed. I have some on the transom in my photo as you can see.
It comes off very easily.
Perhaps we have different definitions of what “works” means.
A little bit of soft growth on a hard, almost impossible to damage surface that lasts 20 years is a good result. A stiff brush, even in the water and it’s gone.
I’ll be diving mine at the weekend to give it a scrub before holiday.
The problem areas will be the props, shafts, P brackets and rudders which are not coppercoated.
If I have any air left I’ll give the hull a wipe.