New Big ferries - Lymington to Yarmouth - LOOK OUT!

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BlueSkyNick

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Well the arrogant batsards at Wightlink have finally decided to start the new W-Class ferries running, regardless of well founded objections. This just issued by LHC:

Wightlink have defied the will of all the regulators in deciding to introduce their new ferries before the necessary safety trials are complete and the environmental concerns have been resolved.

They have taken this action despite repeated requests from the LHC and their previous undertaking not to do so. They claim that they are justified because of the needs of the Isle of Wight, but the real problem that has lead to this situation is Wightlink’s determination to design and build ferries in advance of meaningful consultations with all the regulators. As a result, all subsequent consultations have taken place against the commercial necessity on the part of Wightlink to introduce ferries that had already been paid for.

We have once again requested Wightlink to desist from this action, and are contacting all the relevant Government Departments for support in preventing it. However, if Wightlink go ahead without completion and acceptance of the risk assessment we will be providing whatever harbour patrols are appropriate to help safe guard other river users. These actions will be taken by the Commissioners in order to minimise any threat to the safety of other river users but without condoning the introduction of the new ferries. It has been confirmed to us by Government that as presently constituted, the Commissioner’s do not have the power to prevent the new ferries sailing.

We expect the full BMT report to be available by 5 March and it will be circulated to stake holders for consultation as soon as possible.

In this fast developing situation, we will keep you all informed as they occur.
Chairman LHC
24/2/2009.


They are 80% more displacement, much bigger windage, and can hardly pass in the river at low tide - the rest of us are expected to keep out of the way.

For those on the island - nobody is seriously saying there should be no ferries at all - just nothing as big as these.

All we can hope for now, is that they wake and smell the coffee, and alter the schedule to avoid passing in the river.

EDIT: For completeness - HERE is Wightlinks announcement. The environmental issue is genuine one because everybody recognises that Lymington marshes are eroding. What Whitelink are saying is that they are satisfied that their consultants cannot prove that this is due to the ferries. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif
 
They certainly looked big when you pointed them out to me the other day! Typical corporate "couldn't-give-a-toss" attitude on the part of Wightlink, I'm afraid.

Time for a boarding/demolition party, I reckon.
 
Whilst I don't condone WL heavyhandedness over their introduction, I have some sympathies with their plight.

Getting anything new done in Lym is a nightmare with more special interest groups than you can shake a stick at. Apparently there was a similar row when the paddlesteamers were replaced with the ferries that are now, themselves, being replaced.
 
The economics of the debate are a whole new issue.

At a public meeting 18months ago the LHC Chairman refused to divulge the fees paid by Wightlink as commercially confidential. However he did say that leisure users (mooring holders and visitors) contribute 80% of the revenue, fishing boats 3% and the ferry companies the remainder. ie 17%. I cant recall the exact numbers, but the outcome was that Wightlink pay no more than 200k pa. I also understand that the contract with Wightlink was up for review - nothing heard.

Now the LHC have a whacking great bill for legal and consultancy costs due to this saga, which they plan to on pass through harbour dues.

In addition, due to the erosion of the marshes, they are also planning a capital intensive protection scheme. somebody is going to have to pay for that, too.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Whilst I don't condone WL heavyhandedness over their introduction, I have some sympathies with their plight.

Getting anything new done in Lym is a nightmare with more special interest groups than you can shake a stick at. Apparently there was a similar row when the paddlesteamers were replaced with the ferries that are now, themselves, being replaced.

[/ QUOTE ] The same ferries that are now being replaced are also proven by one consultant's report to have caused damage to the marshes - it all depends which documents one chooses to read or ignore.

I have no sympathy with WL's plight (as you may have noticed!) if they had gone about managing their stakeholders properly from the beginning, they might have had a warmer reception.

Once Keyhaven marshes are eroded too, you can kiss goodbye to your mooring !!
 
[ QUOTE ]
Once Keyhaven marshes are eroded too, you can kiss goodbye to your mooring !!

[/ QUOTE ]
I hope not. having the auld trout oot er ra harm's way on a mooring is a public safety bonus ... i mean you won't have seen his ferry-glide into ... erm .. dive bombing of --- a Bodo pontoon !!
 
Ah, but at Keyhaven we have a whole artificial shingle bank to protect us, just the kind of thing that the specliast interest groups are against in Lymington.....

Any roads up with your supertanker the more draft the better, eh?
 
Don't often get to your delightful part of the world these days. But maybe a well organised blockade or two, (well and truly publicised for safety's sake of course).

I'm sure a quick cross Channel trip will get you all the tips needed! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Seriously, my sympathies. Completely out of order but then they do seem to think that the Solent and its environs are theirs to exploit as they wish?
 
Really daft to introduce bigger ferries. Was the capacity on the older, smaller ferries always 100% full? Do they think people will use the ferries more now just because they are bigger?
 
I've had my say on this before and it is amazing that Wightlink can get away with it. One of the LHC guys told us that they might be able to insist that they only ever pass each other outside of the river, but are they in fact able to do that or will Wightlink just ignore that too?

We love visiting Lymington and are regulars on weekends from Poole but that might be subject to a re-think if those monsters are allowed to pass inside the river whenever and wherever they chose. As regulars we are aware of what the ferries do but strangers are not and yet even as regulars knowing what to expect we have had some near misses. At the end of last year we were behind one of the old ferries which first stopped at the 'passing spot' but then moved off again so we followed. It then passed the loading berth which still had another ferry loading, towards the overnight berth where we assumed it would wait before moving back to discharge cars once the other one left. WRONG! Without any warning, no sound signals it suddenly came back straight at us and we were still going ahead in the very narrowest part with moored boats very close to our port side and nowhere to go. Luckily we had JUST enough space (like a couple of feet to spare) and by using full throttle to avoid being pushed sideways by it's weird propulsion system made it through but no thanks to Wightlink. As you are obviously aware but others might not be, these ferries are double ended so stern becomes bow and vice versa and they just change the lights and ensign around to show which way they are going, but in this instance there was no changes and no sound signal. Imagine that same scenario with the new bigger ferries and we would be dead meat!

We will be monitoring the situation closely before we start our season proper (we just launched again today, yipeeeeee!) but maybe lymington's loss will be Yarmouth's gain.
 
The environmental issue is genuine one because everybody recognises that Lymington marshes are eroding. What Whitelink are saying is that they are satisfied that their consultants cannot prove that this is due to the ferries.
========================================

Lets forget about the wet stuff for a moment.

What about the fact that WL introduced these larger ferries, in order to enjoy greater HGV traffic across to the IOW.

Where does this traffic run to/from ferries/M27?

Across a small road between Beaulieu & Lymington, which is hardly capable of taking car traffic,let alone HGV.

This IMHO, is the environmental impact we should be concerned about!
 
The HM has repeatedly asked for any incidents (near miss or collisions) caused by the ferries to be reported to them - which I would urge you and all others to do, in the future.

If you choose Yarmouth instead, dont forget the same ferries will be going in and out of there too .... across the strongest part of the tidal currents !
 
[ QUOTE ]
This IMHO, is the environmental impact we should be concerned about!

[/ QUOTE ] Very true for the likes of you and I, Alan, but not so much for the boaters on this forum. Of course, the same traffic will also be imposed on the IoW road network too.
 
Nick I did report it verbally but not in writing although I was asked to. Stupid me thought the berk on the bridge should be given a break but in hindsight that should perhaps have meant to his leg.

At least in Yarmouth you are in a very limited danger area and then only if you go inside and mostly we stop on the outside buoys. With the credit crunch we might anchor more too, ferry free off Alum Bay, Hurst or Newtown.

Mind you Lymington Yacht Haven residents like you at least don't get to share the real dodgy bit with the ferries up past Berthon!
 
The new ferries have to come on into service, as the old ones have not been "MOTed" so it has been known for some time that this would happen in March.

On fees, if you closed the ferry terminal and put in moorings at say 1/3 the cost of the marina, i would expect to bring in more fees to LHC and more income to the shops and pubs in the town, and improve the sailing and make for a better environment
 
It is indeed always difficult to take an unbiased view. I tend to be of the opinion that the existing ferries are pretty big already but as a frequent visitor to Lymington I must say that they are always driven with care in the approaches and don't exactly belt around having a top speed of only 10 knots which is usually cut to the speed imposed by the harbour authorities well in time which is more than I can say for some MoBo drivers! Yes the new ones are bigger, but the emotive protestations would lead the majority of people to believe that they are monsters. Looking at the specs we have beam increased by 5.2% to 16 metres, OAL increased 6.8% to 62 metres and draught pretty well the same (well .02 metres more if we nit pick) Drive is still twin Voith Schnieder and design speed 11 knots.
Will this make a difference in real terms? I don't think so. Do the present ferries impact on the saltings in the approach? Probably. In fact the harbour might well silt up without them! Will these bigger ones be much different? Frankly I doubt it, and think we should give them the benefit of the doubt and see what they are like in practice before protesting too much.
 
True to say the ferries move slowly in the river - especially as the harbour master now has AIS !! However this has he opposite problem in that they provide a large obstacle for a longer period of time, especially when they are crossing, and with greater windage this is a problem for dinghy sailors.

I agree with your sums re beam, length and draft, except that the shape of the hull underwater is more rectangular and hence 80% greater displacement of water. Also, much more powerful bow and stern thrusters.
 
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