New battery advice, please...

[NealB]

The batteries on our 'new' boat are old and one, certainly, seems to have at least one cell down (it goes very quickly from 13.5V off the charger, to 10.8v).

Anyone any remmendations for replacements, please?

These would fit:

https://www.tayna.co.uk/leisure-batteries/enduroline/exv140/

Some of the comments suggest they need a higher charge rate than other batteries. Does anyone know any detail, please?

Thanks.

 

[KAL]

There are numerous threads here about battery types, and given an unlimited budget, the world is your oyster.

FWIW, we have a domestic bank of 2 x 110ah lead acid leisure batteries, wired in parallel and a good old one-two-both battery switch. This gives a theoretical 220ah of power which is topped up with a wind genny and a couple of small solar panels, meaning we don’t often need to run the engine to charge up. Being on a swinging mooring, this is really important.

A separate engine crank 90ah with higher cold-crank amp rating does the starting, but all three can be linked together through a combination of isolator keys, in case of failure.

If you think one of your bank has died, I would suggest replacing both at the same time, with identical matched batteries. Places like batterymegastore are good sources of replacements. Good luck.

 

[Tranona]

That is a very big and heavy battery - and expensive with delivery.

Difficult to advise without knowing what the setup is in your boat and your pattern of usage. For example is this just a domestic bank or do you use it to start the engine? How are you charging it?

There are many choices and you need to be clear about your expectations before you make the choice. FWIIW the set up KAL describes (but hopefully without the 1,2 both switch!) is common in a typical mid size (30-35') coastal cruiser.

 

[NealB]

Thanks for both replies.

She's a 1989 Westerly Falcon 35, that we bought last year.

She's got a Sterling alternator controller, charging two leisure batteries, that can be selected through a standard one, two, both, off switch. There is no separate engine start battery, but I could easily be persuaded of the need for one.

I know those switches are now out of fashion (and I've seen Paul Rainbow's dismissive comments about them, in particular), but, on our many other boats, over more than thirty years, they've served us well.

I'm sure there's an element of, "you don't know what you're missing, till you try something else", but I don't feel hugely motivated to swap it for a VSR or other fancier system.

The boat lives on a mooring throughout the season, and is used for fairly typical holidays and weekends. The holidays can be for two or three months at a time.

We generally prefer anchoring in quieter creeks to paying for noisy marinas.

I'm thinking of fitting a fridge, which will obviously increase electrical demand substantilly. A solar panel set up is on the shopping list.

 

[VicS]

Thanks for both replies.

She's a 1989 Westerly Falcon 35, that we bought last year.

She's got a Sterling alternator controller, charging two leisure batteries, that can be selected through a standard one, two, both, off switch. There is no separate engine start battery, but I could easily be persuaded of the need for one.


I'm thinking of fitting a fridge, which will obviously electrical demand. A solar panel set up is on the shopping list.

There seems to be enough information, maybe mis-information, out there about Ca batteries requiring a higher charging voltage ( 14.8 or even 15 volts) to make me wary of fitting them unless the charging system can be adjusted to suit. Your Sterling alternator controller may be able to accommodate them. See the instructions for it or even seek Mr Sterling's advice.

I reckon if you fit a fridge you may well have to consider upgrading your electrical system.

Perhaps combining the two big batteries into one domestic bank and fitting a smaller engine start battery if space permits. ( a Red Flash starter battery can usually be tucked into a corner somewhere.) and fitting a VSR ( preferably Paul Rainbow's favourite low loss Victron device) and a solar system to keep them all properly charged.

While you could retain the 12B switch it is not ideal. Maybe a Blue Sea Dual circuit plus switch , rather than a bank of separate switches, would appeal.

 

[JumbleDuck]

While you could retain the 12B switch it is not ideal.

 

[NealB]

There seems to be enough information, maybe mis-information, out there about Ca batteries requiring a higher charging voltage ( 14.8 or even 15 volts) to make me wary of fitting them unless the charging system can be adjusted to suit. Your Sterling alternator controller may be able to accommodate them. See the instructions for it or even seek Mr Sterling's advice.

I reckon if you fit a fridge you may well have to consider upgrading your electrical system.

Perhaps combining the two big batteries into one domestic bank and fitting a smaller engine start battery if space permits. ( a Red Flash starter battery can usually be tucked into a corner somewhere.) and fitting a VSR ( preferably Paul Rainbow's favourite low loss Victron device) and a solar system to keep them all properly charged.

While you could retain the 12B switch it is not ideal. Maybe a Blue Sea Dual circuit plus switch , rather than a bank of separate switches, would appeal.

Thanks Vic, it was the higher charging rate that made me nervous.

I like the idea of a dedicated start battery.

I need to do more homework about the VSR (I've heard several rumours of them failing) and solar systems.

 

[NealB]

Ooohh .... I like that, thanks!

 

[JumbleDuck]

Ooohh .... I like that, thanks!

I like Robert Watson-Watt's version too: “Give them the third-best to go on with; the second-best comes too late, [and] the best never comes.”

I have a friend who bought a Daimler Dart about fifteen years ago. It was in perfectly good drivable condition - I know, because I collected it for him. It has been off the road ever since, because he is obsessed with getting it perfect, and every month there is something new to worry about. Silicone water hoses. New pattern disks. Rack and pinion steering. Remote oil filter. The list goes on, practically nothing has been done and the car is now more or less a barn find, after fifteen years of decay.

It's the same with all this silly evangelical nonsense about 1/2/B switches. Sure, they're not perfect, but nothing is perfect. Sailing is more fun than worrying about it.

 

[NealB]

I like Robert Watson-Watt's version too: “Give them the third-best to go on with; the second-best comes too late, [and] the best never comes.”

I have a friend who bought a Daimler Dart about fifteen years ago. It was in perfectly good drivable condition - I know, because I collected it for him. It has been off the road ever since, because he is obsessed with getting it perfect, and every month there is something new to worry about. Silicone water hoses. New pattern disks. Rack and pinion steering. Remote oil filter. The list goes on, practically nothing has been done and the car is now more or less a barn find, after fifteen years of decay.

It's the same with all this silly evangelical nonsense about 1/2/B switches. Sure, they're not perfect, but nothing is perfect. Sailing is more fun than worrying about it.

A great little story, to which I can all too easily relate.

I'm almost persuaded to just buy two batteries, same as the old, and get launched (we're a few months behind schedule this spring, due to me breaking a leg in February).

This weather is too good to miss, and I can worry about upgrades to the system later.

Cheers!

 

[Tranona]

It's the same with all this silly evangelical nonsense about 1/2/B switches. Sure, they're not perfect, but nothing is perfect. Sailing is more fun than worrying about it.

However, if you are rewiring to have an engine start battery and a charge splitter then it makes sense to change your switching arrangements as the features of the 1,2 both are now redundant and separate switches become an advantage. To me the simplest way of doing it is to use a BEP Marine switch cluster which has a VSR built in and a paralleling switch. Neat and simple and roughly the same footprint as a 1,2 both although square not round.

 

[GHA]

A great little story, to which I can all too easily relate.

I'm almost persuaded to just buy two batteries, same as the old, and get launched (we're a few months behind schedule this spring, due to me breaking a leg in February).

This weather is too good to miss, and I can worry about upgrades to the system later.

Cheers!

Slight drift but a cheap and easy useful addition is a few quid on a Ebay voltmeter connected direct to the battery terminals somewhere visible so you can see in an instant very accurately what the batts voltage is, and definitely get some solar - lead acid batteries hate not getting back to full charge regularly, makes them roll over and die..

 

[NealB]

Slight drift but a cheap and easy useful addition is a few quid on a Ebay voltmeter connected direct to the battery terminals somewhere visible so you can see in an instant very accurately what the batts voltage is, and definitely get some solar - lead acid batteries hate not getting back to full charge regularly, makes them roll over and die..

Thanks .... I forgot to mention that we've got a Nasa meter which gives charge/ discharge/ voltage and %age of capacity.

 

[VicS]

Thanks Vic, it was the higher charging rate that made me nervous.

I like the idea of a dedicated start battery.

I need to do more homework about the VSR (I've heard several rumours of them failing) and solar systems.

I think if you look at the range of problems people ask about on these Forums you d find little evidence that VSRs are a big problem but you would certainly come to the conclusion that fitting an engine in a yacht is a very bad idea!

However thinking a little more about your needs:
If you have a Sterling alternator controller you can use a diode splitter, rather than a VSR, because the Sterling effectively make the alternator battery sensing thereby removing the usual objection, namely volts drop, to diodes

The solar is really for charging the domestic battery so it can just do that or you could fit a controller with outputs for two battery banks.

At the end of the day once you have dedicated batteries and split charging system the 12B switch, despite what Voltaire might have said about them, is no longer doing what it does on a simple electrical system like you have at present, namely selecting which battery to put into service.

The battery monitor will allow you to monitor what is happening , but once you combine the batteries you would have to take a look at how it is wired to ensure that it is monitoring the combined bank and that nothing is bypassing the shunt

 

[GHA]

Thanks .... I forgot to mention that we've got a Nasa meter which gives charge/ discharge/ voltage and %age of capacity.

Another one direct to the terminals is really nice to have as well, the voltage can actually be quite different (in terms of what batteries think is different ) under load/charging by the time it gets measured further down the line.

 

[NealB]

.......... the 12B switch, despite what Voltaire might have said about them ......

Excellent!

 

[Stemar]

One advantage of the 12B switch is that it allows you to use the domestic bank to start the engine, or the engine battery to run instruments and nav lights in an emergency. I know one should never get to a situation where either is necessary, but this is a boat we're talking about

 

[VicS]

Another one direct to the terminals is really nice to have as well, the voltage can actually be quite different (in terms of what batteries think is different ) under load/charging by the time it gets measured further down the line.

Not sure what you are trying to suggest here but the Nasa BM1 measures the volts at the battery terminals.

BM2 and later BM1s can also measure the starter battery volts

 

[Tranona]

One advantage of the 12B switch is that it allows you to use the domestic bank to start the engine, or the engine battery to run instruments and nav lights in an emergency. I know one should never get to a situation where either is necessary, but this is a boat we're talking about

You can achieve exactly the same thing with a paralleling switch as suggested earlier. There is no benefit of a 1,2 both if you have two clearly separate banks and split charge. The benefit only comes if you don't have split charge or dedicated banks which is what the OP has.

 

[VicS]

One advantage of the 12B switch is that it allows you to use the domestic bank to start the engine, or the engine battery to run instruments and nav lights in an emergency. I know one should never get to a situation where either is necessary, but this is a boat we're talking about

Nomally one would replace the 12B switch with a cluster of three switches. One for each bank and an emergency combining switch but the reason for suggesting a Blue Sea "Dual Circuit Plus" switch is that it combines two isolators and a combining switch into one unit. OK there is a snag if you look closely at what it does but it is not insurmountable.