New awb's.

[awol]

Not many. Once you're north of Ardnamuchan it's Nauticats and MABs all the way. Sure you see a few modern things in marinas, but I have rarely seen any in interesting places.

I'm afraid I disagree with you, Ducky. There are plenty AWBs to be found north of Ardnamurchan. The Dutch, Germans and Scandinavians seem capable of reaching our waters in them and charterers will even let the English out in theirs. Whether they are suitable (or not) for the waters is a matter of opinion but I prefer my old MAB (incidentally, one outscored a new Bav 32 in YM tests 30+ years after the model's 1st launch).

 

[dunedin]

Not many. Once you're north of Ardnamuchan it's Nauticats and MABs all the way. Sure you see a few modern things in marinas, but I have rarely seen any in interesting places.

If that’s what you think. Certainly not my experience, but you cherish your own perceptions as you like.

 

[Spyro]

I've started to see more UK based boats reversing into their berths but it baffles me that the majority of UK AWB owners still go in forwards and climb down onto wobbly fingers instead of stepping off onto the main pontoon.

That may because they've never been to places like thd med where that is how its done. Once you have that would always be first choice.

 

[wully1]

Guess which company is still in business ?

The one that Beneteau bought and saved?

 

[Frogmogman]

The one that Beneteau bought and saved?

Ha ha. Touché.

I did think about that after I posted, but I still hold to my general point.

 

[rwoofer]

We thought that the nicest on display was the Jeanneau 31.9 at £88k..

I was also most impressed with that. Very high freeboard which means it's not much of a looker, but it is the best packaged boat of that size I've encountered.

 

[Mistroma]

Not many. Once you're north of Ardnamuchan it's Nauticats and MABs all the way. Sure you see a few modern things in marinas, but I have rarely seen any in interesting places.

I must admit that doesn't ring a bell with me. Perhaps it has changed, last time we were as far as Cape Wrath was 2011. Not planning to sail back from med. any time soon to check.

Just a thought, which marinas north of Ardnamurchan were home to AWBs?

 

[Tranona]

I don't think thats the case at all, certainly not from me. I am looking forward to a few years pootling around the med, and even the trip through the canals I intend to take my time and enjoy it.
I did not say awb's cannot sail, I want space and light and comfort below, I love the idea of an owners aft cabin.

I am surprised at the quality of finish and materials for the money. Even the vinyl on the cushions was cheap tat, it cant make any real difference to margins with an asking price of £365k to use high quality cushion coverings surely? (thats just one example)

I am surprised at the lack of practicality when in a rough sea given to the interior in the designs... and the med by all accts is frequently rough! No fiddles on tables, puny magnetic catches, no wet lockers. Do med sailors never use full foul weather gear? where does it go when soaking wet? I don't want it in the shower as I will prob want a nice warm shower to warm up in if the weather was crap.

(I only have my mab to compare it to, but I honestly expected to be blown away by the difference. I just wasn't. If I compared a ford mondeo say, to an entry level ford from 40 years ago, it would be night and day, from every perspective. That just doesn't appear to have happened in the yacht world. )

Most of all, I am surprised by the poor value for the amount of money asked for. It may well be that my feelings on the matter are out of kilter with everyone else's, but it doesn't change the fact I would not spend that amount of money in return for one of them. I just don't think they are worth it.

An awful lot of folk obviously do, and that's fine.

In part I agree with you about some of the most recent boats which to my mind have gone too far down the open plan living style. However having spent more than 10 years boating in the Med I can see the appeal of something like a Beneteau 38. The thing to remember is that the basic boats, irrespective of the inside layout and finish are perfectly capable of handling rough weather - just that most owners and charterers avoid it if at all possible. It is not difficult to do this and the boat is used as a mobile apartment that can sail nicely the few miles from one anchorage or port to another. The emphasis is on outdoor living hence the big cockpits and easy access through the stern. All very different from most sailing here.

You have no doubt seen my ramblings on why I chose to buy an AWB, so won't repeat it all here. However, pretty sure you will change your mind about what are suitable boats once you have experience of sailing in other environments. I have lost count of the number of people I met who having fulfilled their ambition of sailing to the Med in their MAB and wished they had made a different choice of boat. The good thing is that many, even of the latest crop, make perfectly satisfactory cruisers for UK conditions.

As to value for money, from my perspective the worst value is the so called premium boats. An HR 340 is literally twice the price of a Bavaria 34 to similar spec. Of course one can see the difference, but a high proportion of the hard materials (engine, rig, deck gear Hull materials etc ) is essentially the same so the premium for higher spec furnishings and woodwork is huge. Still, I think the same about cars as the mass produced cars have become (like boats) so good it is difficult from a functional point of view to justify the extra expenditure.

 

[steve yates]

Also in part, I agree with you, I want light and space and comfort to live in, and enjoy the experience.
It's just that I don't see the offerings from those that I saw being worth the price. ( I never reached the jeannau stand) And while I'm sure the boats per se are perfectly capable of handling the rough stuff, I really don't think they are the boat I want to be living in when it's rough, because the interiors are not up to that from what I saw.
The living side of things just seems to be so unadjusted to the idea of rough weather.
A 46 ft bav was £365k, if a real quality offering from others is truly double that, then I am gobsmacked. And concede that yachting is for rich folk only. I can't think of anything a boat could offer me that would be worth £700,000 to me.
I would much rather buy an older boat, and pay to have it stripped out, then have a cabinet maker custom build the interior to my own design, with lovely materials. I would be very surprised if I could not do all that for under £100k, then add another 20 for sails, rigging and engine.

 

[Bav34]

A 46 ft bav was £365k, if a real quality offering from others is truly double that, then I am gobsmacked.

Prepare to be.

Rassy 44 (not 46) tested March last year ...£612,765 !

 

[Seven Spades]

I presume the OP went to the London boat show. The sort of boat he is looking is not on display there. What he wants does exist and they are made in the West country. He shoudl look at a Mystery 35, which I think is probably the best fit for his requirements. It is a Stephen Jones designed hull, sails astonishingly well and is probably the most beautiful boat under 50 feet made today.

Alternatively there are Rustler yachts and many other good boats made by small European manufacturers which can be seen at the Dusseldorf boat show.

 

[Kelpie]

Not many. Once you're north of Ardnamuchan it's Nauticats and MABs all the way. Sure you see a few modern things in marinas, but I have rarely seen any in interesting places.

Afraid I can't agree with that. We certainly do see a good mix of boats up here- Ovnis, Fishers, classic plastic of all sorts, but there are also plenty of AWBs, including the Isle of Skye yachts charter fleet, which comprises Hanses, Jenneaus etc.

 

[wully1]

Ha ha. Touché.

I did think about that after I posted, but I still hold to my general point.

Id have an older Jen/Bav/Ben , indeed I owned 2 and they were well built, sailed well and were easy to work on.

It seems to me the modern versions are just cheap and nasty built, flimsy and empty inside. I agree they are well stuck together but do tend to disintegrate if you hit something solid judging by the queue of them waiting to be fixed in the local yard.

Or Maybe MAB owners don’t hit rocks so often?

 

[JumbleDuck]

I'm afraid I disagree with you, Ducky. There are plenty AWBs to be found north of Ardnamurchan.

There are some, but I stick to my point which is that the further you get from the Clyde, the older and more traditional the boats are. The profile of boats in Craobh, for example, is very different from the profile of boats in Largs. And of course there are perfectly good reasons for this. AWBs are very well designed for life in marinas with shortish hops between them in good weather. Perfect for the Med, perfect for retired people in Poole. Less good for areas with fewer faciities. Doesn't make them bad, just different.

 

[steve yates]

Prepare to be.

Rassy 44 (not 46) tested March last year ...£612,765 !

Jeezuz!!! ....wanders off shaking head and muttering

 

[JumbleDuck]

Afraid I can't agree with that. We certainly do see a good mix of boats up here- Ovnis, Fishers, classic plastic of all sorts, but there are also plenty of AWBs, including the Isle of Skye yachts charter fleet, which comprises Hanses, Jenneaus etc.

I don't doubt it, but I think you get a lot fewer AWBs than are knocking around the Clyde - particularly if you exclude the charter fleets, which have very little choice but to stock up with boats designed for the Med.

 

[[70521]]

In part I agree with you about some of the most recent boats which to my mind have gone too far down the open plan living style. However having spent more than 10 years boating in the Med I can see the appeal of something like a Beneteau 38. The thing to remember is that the basic boats, irrespective of the inside layout and finish are perfectly capable of handling rough weather - just that most owners and charterers avoid it if at all possible. It is not difficult to do this and the boat is used as a mobile apartment that can sail nicely the few miles from one anchorage or port to another. The emphasis is on outdoor living hence the big cockpits and easy access through the stern. All very different from most sailing here.

You have no doubt seen my ramblings on why I chose to buy an AWB, so won't repeat it all here. However, pretty sure you will change your mind about what are suitable boats once you have experience of sailing in other environments. I have lost count of the number of people I met who having fulfilled their ambition of sailing to the Med in their MAB and wished they had made a different choice of boat. The good thing is that many, even of the latest crop, make perfectly satisfactory cruisers for UK conditions.

As to value for money, from my perspective the worst value is the so called premium boats. An HR 340 is literally twice the price of a Bavaria 34 to similar spec. Of course one can see the difference, but a high proportion of the hard materials (engine, rig, deck gear Hull materials etc ) is essentially the same so the premium for higher spec furnishings and woodwork is huge. Still, I think the same about cars as the mass produced cars have become (like boats) so good it is difficult from a functional point of view to justify the extra expenditure.

You make some very good point there. Some of which reflect my views that these boats are designed for the med, a much bigger market than this small island off the north coast of Europe, to be used as a floating cottage. Almost anything can sail in rough conditions, from the rafts of Thor Heyerdahl, to the modern super yacht. Its the level and practicality of internal finish that really is the issue. Twin wheels and a swim platform is a fashion that will come and go. Personally, don't see the benefit of twin wheels unless you are a racer; on passage I do very little hand steering. As for the swim platform always too bl%%dy cold to go swimming!

There are an increasing number of people who sail that prefer to marina hop, which is brilliant as it gets them on the water, but that is not my idea of fun.

By the way I sail a 30 year old French boat.

 

[RupertW]

You make some very good point there. Some of which reflect my views that these boats are designed for the med, a much bigger market than this small island off the north coast of Europe, to be used as a floating cottage.

There is an increasing number of people who sail that prefer to marina hop, which is brilliant as it gets them on the water, but that is not my idea of fun.

By the way I sail a 30 year old French boat.

You seem to be hearing something a little different to what is being written. Absolutely agree that boats are designed for the Med, but marina hopping is a far more a UK pastime than a Med one, particularly in the south, snd modern boats tend to sail better and faster than old heavy one so more for sailors than old MAB wind assisted floating sheds. But you do need more technique in heavier conditions, and then the interiors are better used as a quick drop to sleep or use the loo rather than spending quality time underway down below. But for the vast amount of sailing time it's nice to cook a good meal or have a hot shower underway and all laze around in the cockpit out of the way of the saily bits.

 

[doug748]

I am surprised at the quality of finish and materials for the money. Even the vinyl on the cushions was cheap tat, it cant make any real difference to margins with an asking price of £365k to use high quality cushion coverings surely? (thats just one example)

I am surprised at the lack of practicality when in a rough sea given to the interior in the designs... and the med by all accts is frequently rough! No fiddles on tables, puny magnetic catches, no wet lockers. Do med sailors never use full foul weather gear? where does it go when soaking wet? I don't want it in the shower as I will prob want a nice warm shower to warm up in if the weather was crap....

Well, if you are potless it is all academic but there was an attempt to bridge the quality gap and address some of the flaws in modern'ish designs.

A 35 footer, it was considered stupidly expensive at £300k and few people had a good word to say about it:

http://www.yachtingworld.com/reviews/boat-tests/gt35-on-test

When it comes down to it cheap sells, look at all the Pound shops :nonchalance:
The prototype is still for sale and you might just get it for £100,000.

 

[prv]

Twin wheels and a swim platform is a fashion that will come and go.

No comment on the wheels, but I can't see the idea of easy access to water level going away.

We have a small swim-step on our 1997 boat and do swim off it from time to time in the summer. Obviously boats in warmer places use it for that purpose daily.

Many people use them for getting in and out of the tender.

Ours is a bit of a scramble over the aft cabin and down the transom, but for newer designs with a walk-through stern and high freeboard, if kept in a marina and berthed stern-to it makes a far easier way to come on board especially at the start of a cruise with gear and stores.

With the advent of the flap-down transom they needn't take up much space, and the stern can be reassuringly enclosed under way. Provided they use a simple tackle (which most do now, after a period of flirting with electric actuators) there's little to go wrong, and really it's hard to find much of a downside.

Pete