Need to obtain €40000 cash in Greece

pandos said:
Sounds plausible, that the seller wants to avoid having the funds tied up in a bank account..... but the real danger is that there is an issue with debts or title or vat with the boat, and the "suggested transaction" being conducted in the limelight will probably not disclose possible problems.

The simple fact is that the seller is appearing to take a hit on the sale to avoid something that could be worked around if he was willing to use imagination, he may not be aware of any issues , but this lack of awareness may stem from deliberate not checking or not checking through genuine ignorance of how to sell a boat,

I would run a mile from a seller of a deadmans boat who was trying to do anything even slightly out of the ordinary.

The solution maybe to use a Greek Lawyer (like these guys...https://www.vlamis.gr/yacht.management.greece.documents.php) to transact the sale with funds being handed over in cash if necessary, at their offices.

After that it is up to the lawyers whether they are happy to hand the cash to the seller.

I would bounce the seller into doing the best thing for you, if he is legit he will reluctantly go along with it, otherwise he will dig his heals in,,,, then you should walk......
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Pandos, thanks top answer and exactly how this transaction will proceed in a solicitors office subject to satisfactory survey and ensuring all paperwork is complete. My OP was on how to potentially obtain the cash to complete the transaction not how the transaction would take place. It was amusing to see the imagination of some for mites thinking cash would be handed over in a darkened alleyway or elsewhere, there were however wise words of caution that I may be getting scammed. I am not inexperienced in these matters after many years in business and have covered my bases in the transaction. A for mites wondered why I had posted here, well a big net catches many things and I think I may have solved my dilemma with en ex pat who has an abundance of euros who would like sterling. As they say in Greece 'cigar cigar'
 
Besonders said:
Vas, thanks for the input, where did you get the information that all transactions over €500 have to be via card and do you really think that applies to private individuals as well as businesses. I have undertaken copious research on the whole subject subject, prior to posting this thread and can find nothing that indicates what I am trying to do is illegal. A fact confirmed by the solicitors overseeing the sale. Unfortunately the solitors are advising on the sale and not the method to fund the sale other than ensuring the funds are paid to complete the transaction and that the funds are from a legitimate source. Whilst the authorities may not like the idea of cash transactions in this big brother society, that does not make it illegal.
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A quick google came up with maximum cash transaction is 1500 euros in VAT, so handing over £40,000 cash would be illegal. But this pdf from Hellenic Bank Association, Item 21, seems to say that any funds in any amount can be withdrawn in cash, if the money is transferred from abroad. Might be worth checking.

https://www.nbg.gr/english/news/Documents/QA_HBA.pdf
 
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Best option has already been suggested - ask your friend to open a bank account in another country and transfer the money into that account. Or fly him over (at your expense) and conduct the cash transfer at a UK solicitors. If he’s not prepared to go with that then there’s surely something wrong?

I’d be wary of taking €40,000 cash because:

1) if the transaction falls through you can’t take the money back out of the country. https://www.greecetravel.com/mazarakis/wisdom/money.html
2) the risk of being ‘jumped’ once you arrive; and the insurance implications.
3) far fetched, but it could look like terrorist financing (not too far from Syria).
4) knowingly circumventing financial controls does not seem like a good idea, especially overseas.
 
fwiw (probably not much help to OP!)

just off the phone with my accountant 60yo with 35yrs experience in dealing with shipping, various local and international companies and private sales:

such transactions (houses, cars, boats, whatever) ARE TO BE DONE VIA BANK deposits.
40K in hand is illegal full stop.

It's not a VAT issue, there's none on a private 2 private transaction, CAPT FANTASTIC is right, it's the TAX at the end of the year the government wants which they wont get with 40K black in the mattress used bit by bit for living expenses or whatnot.
Mind the seller wont be (easily) able to produce them when buying a s/h merc or porsche for example as he will be checked regarding where he got them from and he'll have to prove the source of them. Of course both seller and buyer can lower the value and do a double deal (bank xfer + cash), but it gets very complicated.

Anyway, to the OP I'd say be careful and good luck.

cheers

V.
 
macd said:
Does that follow? A transaction between private individuals, which this seems to be, would involved €0.00 in VAT.
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The transaction limit is meant as a sum including any VAT, if it is due, but still an absolute limit. ie not 1500 plus.

Pay it into his bank from UK, he can then withdraw the whole amount (must be the whole amount), but THEY will know.
 
vas said:
fwiw (probably not much help to OP!)

just off the phone with my accountant 60yo with 35yrs experience in dealing with shipping, various local and international companies and private sales:

such transactions (houses, cars, boats, whatever) ARE TO BE DONE VIA BANK deposits.
40K in hand is illegal full stop.

It's not a VAT issue, there's none on a private 2 private transaction, CAPT FANTASTIC is right, it's the TAX at the end of the year the government wants which they wont get with 40K black in the mattress used bit by bit for living expenses or whatnot.
Mind the seller wont be (easily) able to produce them when buying a s/h merc or porsche for example as he will be checked regarding where he got them from and he'll have to prove the source of them. Of course both seller and buyer can lower the value and do a double deal (bank xfer + cash), but it gets very complicated.

Anyway, to the OP I'd say be careful and good luck.

cheers

V.
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Excellent advice.

Someone reading this thread may find the lack of professionally informed opinion somewhat odd. It is de facto illegal under UK/European/US law (and many others) to offer specific financial advice without in advance undertaking stringent regulatory mandated checks.

Vas's description of the general advice provided by his legal counsel is about as close as one can come to this line and while possibly not agreeing with every detail, I would say it hits the nail squarely on the head.

Dealing with large sums of cash leaves one open to questions including money laundering, tax avoidance, terrorism, bribery, etc. In light of the powers available to the various law enforcement authorities operating within these areas it is madness to even contemplate messing around here, let alone actually doing something!
 
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dom said:
Someone reading this thread may find the lack of professionally informed opinion somewhat odd. It is de facto illegal under UK/European/US law (and many others) to offer specific financial advice without in advance undertaking stringent regulatory mandated checks.
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As a matter of interest, what counts as "financial advice", and does it need to be paid for? I've seen lots of postings over the years about good ways to move money around, hedging for overseas purchases and so on, and I always assumed that it was only paid-for investment advice which was regulated.
 
Why not ask for a split deal? 10k nominal price paid into the bank, with all paperwork along with it. Then 30k cash on completion. Personally, I'd just carry it with me.
 
As mentioned earlier in the thread agree to meet somewhere outside Greece where a 40k cash transaction is legal and normal, and hand over the money there, even if you have to pay the seller's travel expenses.
 
JumbleDuck said:
As a matter of interest, what counts as "financial advice", and does it need to be paid for? I've seen lots of postings over the years about good ways to move money around, hedging for overseas purchases and so on, and I always assumed that it was only paid-for investment advice which was regulated.
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Tricky question that, partly because legislation differs on a jurisdictional basis, partly because investments are often cross-border, and partly because clients differ in themselves: retail, wealthy, high-net-worth, pension fund trustee, fund manager, private equity, hedge fund, sovereign wealth fund, etc.

In the UK the FCA has a defined list of 'controlled functions', all with specific examination and experience requirements:
https://www.fca.org.uk/firms/approved-persons/controlled-functions

In most cases the financial advisor/lawyer will charge for his/her services as a detailed, time consuming and mandatory customer classification must be made in advance of any advice. Moreover, if the advice subsequently given turns out to have been unsuitable the client may have an actionable case against the advisor.

Other laws also enter the fray here, e.g. the new MiFID II ESMA regulations generally require that financial advice is paid for; in fact, the provision of free advice may be viewed as a 'financial inducement' on the part of the advisor. On it goes.

In practice, imagine I were to say to you, "You know in your circumstances JD stock XYZ is a sure-fire bet, no doubt about it" and that you went out and transferred your entire pension into that stock, and that it subsequently collapsed. If I am just a bloke in the pub that is tough luck for you, but if I happen to be a regulated individual then I'd probably have to make your pension whole again, even if the advice was provided FOC. The provision of generic financial advice is slighly different, although even there you will probably find a lengthly disclaimer at the bottom of the page.

Add ant-terrorism regulations, money-laundering, ant-graft, taxation, sanctions compliance, and whatnot into the equation, then pose the question on a public forum...

...well that's why nobody touched it with the proverbial 40' barge pole. A 140' barge pole would even be too close for comfort!
 
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TopBanana said:
Why not ask for a split deal? 10k nominal price paid into the bank, with all paperwork along with it. Then 30k cash on completion. Personally, I'd just carry it with me.
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Interesting how, when informed that a large cash transaction is probably illegal, some people then advise doing something even more so.
Inadvertently breaking a (reputed) Greek law by making a cash payment is certainly risky. Knowingly restructuring a financial transaction to try to hide it would make it clear the buyer is fully aware and complicit in any lawbreaking. Better be an expert in fraud and money laundering regulations (and penalties) in the country before aiding and abetting any such crime.
If it was me I would offer to make electronic bank payment to the vendors solicitor, take it or leave it.
If somebody insists on cash, in spite of (or worse because of) local currency restrictions, and further the boat is part of deceased legal estate, this sounds like a can of worms.
Just further reinforces my view that with electronic payments now being so simple and cheap, any large cash transaction these days is most likely to be illicit in one or multiple ways - otherwise why wouldn’t electronic payment be safer and simpler.
 
dom said:
In practice, imagine I were to say to you, "You know in your circumstances JD stock XYZ is a sure-fire bet, no doubt about it" and that you went out and transferred your entire pension into that stock, and that it subsequently collapsed. If I am just a bloke in the pub that is tough luck for you, but if I happen to be a regulated individual then I'd probably have to make your pension whole again, even if the advice was provided FOC.
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Thanks. It sounds much like other professions, then - a chartered surveyor pal who said "You don't need to worry about that crack in your wall" would potentially be in more trouble than an unqualified bloke down the pub who gave the same advice, when your house fell down. But with even more laws.

What I really want to know is whether I can complain about that runner woman (the one with a widow's peak) whose face leers at me every time I walk through Milton Keynes station, telling me to put my money in a Santander account. What qualifications does she have, eh?

Add ant-terrorism regulations, money-laundering, ant-graft, taxation, sanctions compliance, and whatnot into the equation, then pose the question on a public forum...

...well that's why nobody touched it with the proverbial 40' barge pole. A 140' barge pole would even be too close for comfort!
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Also the blokes with the big cigars seem to hang out mainly in the Motorboat forum, planning their next three boat purchases. Perhaps even next year's as well. But yes, this sounds unbelievably dodgy.
 
dunedin said:
Interesting how, when informed that a large cash transaction is probably illegal, some people then advise doing something even more so.
Inadvertently breaking a (reputed) Greek law by making a cash payment is certainly risky. Knowingly restructuring a financial transaction to try to hide it would make it clear the buyer is fully aware and complicit in any lawbreaking.
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Perhaps the OP should watch Midnight Express. OK, technically it's Turkey rather than Greece, but the basic principles are probably the same.
 
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