Near collision

I don't understand on what basis he got fined, you heard it so I believe something happened. But for what was he charged, adding 30 seconds to the freighters journey time, wear and tear to her rudder?

If this is the case, should yachts be banned from crossing shipping lanes, gonna make it quite hard to get get anywhere!

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For what it's worth Ian......South coast employment does not pay the highest rewards compared to London rates. I would go as far to say that a Captain on a ferry in the Portsmouth area should therefore be earning a fair chunk for that region......These skippers know their boats and local waters well, his pass on you I realise caused concern but he knew his limits. Do you think for one moment that he would jepadise his standard of living for a bit of fun?.....if he did then he should not be in charge of such a vessel

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Re: I love this post.

To the people who think we should hide from ferries and big scary ships to the belivers in the psyco ferry skipper is quite a span.

Having had Red Eagle come upon me from behind at 19 knots, pass outside the empty main channel and squeeze between me and a buoy, so close that we were sucked around his stern and left bobbing in his prop wash, while all the time the skipper was in plain view in the centre of his bridge clearly watching us, I might be expected to subscribe to the psyco theory. I don't though. I subscribe to the increased commercial pressures leading to a bad day at the office for some skippers leading to the odd abberation.

As I've stated the fact that some ferry skippers will push it a bit close is well known among boatmen around the Solent. Everyone knows that yotties can be a bit erratic at times.

The real problem here is inconsistancy of approach by yotties and by the pro's and you ain't going to change that.




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Ah right - a few well chosen words from the CG I can believe if they didn't like his actions - particularly if he did not stick to the rules.

I don't know what conditions are like in the busy areas near Calais, but elsewhere it is the norm for big ships to make small early alterations of course to avoid small boats - often these are so early that you might not notice them unless you were watching carefully or had a radar plot running.

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Re: You should be aware

Erm - only if you break the rules though I can't see anyone being fined for obeying Colregs / local Bylaws.

Even then I would be surprised if they had the power to impose a fine without going through the courts (Magna Carta and all that)

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Re: You should be aware

bedouin...are you on a wind up m8?........some of the shipping in the channel need a hell of a distance to slow down, if you have ever had a VHF turned on and listened to the conversations between the vessel and Dover CG you would then begin to realise the hazards out there! the avarage draft (correct me if I am wrong) of these large ships is anything between 5 & 15 metres!.....Dover CG require that ANY LESIURE or small craft MUST CROSS the shipping lanes in a straight and not diagonal course any deviation could result in a penalty! As for collision regs.....small boats in the zone are ALWAYS the vessel that will give way!
So enough of this subject and back to Ians thread about ferries eh?


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Re: You should be aware

Leaving the TSS out of it for the moment - if a ship takes early action it only takes a slight change in course to miss a yacht by a safe distance.

What you are quoting there are the rules laid down in Colregs for any craft crossing a TSS - and I think all the Dover straits are covered by TSS. Though to be accurate the regulations require you to cross on a HEADING not a COURSE at right angles to the TSS. Dover CG are VERY hot on enforcing that part of Colregs, even to the extent of sending out spotter planes to identify offenders.

However boats crossing the TSS are required not to impede the safe passage of vessels using the TSS but that is not the same as being Give Way vessel, if they get to a close quarters situation then the normal stand on / give way rules apply. All that "do not impede" means is to ensure that the other vessel has room to manoeuvre safely which is not the same as saying they cannot take avoiding action.

If you are serious about sailing I would seriously recommend you take an RYA theory training course, or just read the Colregs (preferably one of the anotated versions) - this should be covered there.

I think you are missing the point I am making. Yes there is plenty of room for common sense and courtesy at sea. But that needs to be applied in good time. So it is sensible for a yacht to take early action to avoid a close quarters developing but once it does deviation from Colregs is dangerous.

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Re: You should be aware

First of all may I say I am offended by Quote: 'If you are serious about sailing I would seriously recommend you take an RYA theory training course, or just read the Colregs (preferably one of the anotated versions) - this should be covered there.'........ It is common knowledge that 10 theorys = 1 practical........As for serious about sailing I would consider myself a competent and safe sailor and have actually sailed in the channel across the TSS many times........although I have RYA certificates we do not always in a discussion use text book sentences!

quote: 'Yes there is plenty of room for common sense and courtesy at sea. But that needs to be applied in good time. So it is sensible for a yacht to take early action to avoid a close quarters developing but once it does deviation from Colregs is dangerous.".........That is the first sensible thing you have posted to me and what I have been implying all along!


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Re: You should be aware

Sorry - it's not my intention to offend, but I get seriously worried about people who mis-quote Colregs and so on.

Firstly you said that a TSS was not involved, but then quote an example from Dover CG which must have related to a TSS. Then you say that the yacht in question was following Colregs, but got an earful for not crossing at right angles. Since this occurred in a TSS, not crossing at right angles breaks the rules.

In common with most yachtsmen, I (literally) go out of my way not to get in the way of commercial traffic. That is my choice and I always make sure that I do it in plenty of time. If for whatever reason I am unable (or unwilling) to do so then I have a right to expect that the other vessel will comply with it's obligations under colregs to keep well clear. I am horrified by the people on this forum who seem to suggest that Colregs should not apply between commercial and leisure craft.

I would also point out that where there is a factor of 3 or more difference in the speed of the vessels involved it is very difficult for the slower to have a significant impact on the distance of closest approach.

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Re: You should be aware

bedouin.........I welcome your appology m8. But before you carry on biting my ankles please go back over my post's and read them! eg....I did not mention a yacht BUT! (from memory) I did say that this vessel or craft caused a freighter to take evasive action IN a shipping lane.....Hense why Dover CG were very annoyed.

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Re: You should be aware

I have to agree with Waverider, a vessel under 20m would always be the giveway vessel crossing a TSS
Rule says any vessel including a sailing vessel under 20m must not impede a powerdriven vessel following a TSS.
Therefore if you force a vessel following a TSS to take avoiding action then you would be impeding its safe passage thus be in breach of colregs

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Re: You should be aware

erm . Mike, Waverider seems unsure of the difference between a TSS and a shipping lane

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Re: You should be aware

No - that is exactly what it does not say. The requirement 'Not to Impede' does not make the sailing vessel give way vessel. (Otherwise why on earth do you think it uses a different term).

This is spelt out explicitly in Colregs.

(a) The only thing the vessel required not to impede must do is "allow sufficient sea room for the other to manouevre" if required.

(b) If risk of collision exists the vessel of passage is obliged to abide by the rules,

i.e. in the case of a sailing vessel meeting a container ship then the container ship remains give way vessel - but of course (a) means that he has plenty of sea room to make the necessary manoeuvres.

That is what the rules say. I didn't write them, I'm just quoting them.

But before anyone else misunderstands me that is not the same as saying I think sailing boats should force commercial vessels to give way - but I am saying that provided the commercial vessel can do so safely the rules entitles a sailing boat to do so.



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Re: You should be aware

LOL....jimi talk about everyone getting cross lined :-) TSS = Traffic Separation Scheme: a routeing measure aimed at the separation of opposing streams of traffic by appropriate means and by the establishment of traffic lanes


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Re: You should be aware

No you didn,t write the rules, but do seem to interprete them as sailing vessels always being the stand on vessel regardless of any other rules

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Re: You should be aware

I think some people on here mike21 not only interprete the rules wrong, but possibly may have not read them!.....if they took the time to read rule 10 (j)...it explains quite clear about vessels less than 20 metres in length!

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Re: Viral marketing

I just started flipping through the latest October issue of PBO and guess what, on page 74 there is an article titled "A day in the life of a Wightlink fastcat skipper".

I now strongly suspect that MainlySteam works in the PBO marketing department and he deliberately spouted nonsense in this thread in the hope that the resulting controversy would boost PBO sales.

Here is the clincher from the mouth of a Wightlink master mariner captain sitting in his aircraft style seat, which as the pictures prove "there's a great view from the bridge so they can see us easily".

Anyhow back to that clincher "All they ask is that we're [yachtsmen] aware of them, hold a steady course and don't suddenly turn in front of them".

The article also has some pointers about how not to tangle with the ferries in the Portsmouth harbour approaches.

Other interesting facts:

* The fastcats can crash stop in two boat lengths.
* They prefer yachts to use their deck level navigation lights, apparently a masthead tricolour light gets lost against shore lights.
* They cross 74 times a day.

MainlySteam if you don't work for PBO marketing I await your public apology.



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