PaulGooch
Well-Known Member
I have a new Navioncs Gold XL9 28XG chart card and a new Raymarine C90W. I also have a Navioncs multi card reader and Raymarine's Raytech planner.
I was having a problem with the level of chart zoom, any more than 1/2 nm and the plotter screen just went blank and white. As i was unsure whether it was a plotter or cartography problem, so i phoned Raymarine, who promptly dismissed it as "cartography problem, nothing to do with us, phone Navionics." I called in to see the chandler i purchased the plotter from, hoping to be able to try the card in one of there plotters to establish if it was hardware or cartography, unfortunately they didn't have one set up, but they kindly leant me a spare chart card. I took this to the boat and it worked fine, so i set about getting Navionics to exchange the card. All i can say is, what a disgraceful company. I dropped the faulty card off at the chandlers and they said they'd get it exchanged for me, very good of them, because although i bought the plotter from them, i didn't buy the card from them. Still, all this marine electronics is supposed to have a Worldwide warranty, no point being stuck in Greece with faulty electronics, being told it's got to come back to the chandler that sold it. They were more than happy to get it sorted for me.
Anyway, one of the people from Navionics (Navionics UK consists of just two people) was visiting the chandlers that week so they kept the card there for him to sort out. He turned up, looked at the chart, examined it in a laptop, tried it in a plotter and sure enough, it didn't zoom past 1/2 mile. He proclaimed that something was odd and left the card with the chandler. I've yet to work out what was said, exactly and can't work out why he left the card there. I had to make a 170 mile trip to the chandlers to collect the card. Doh!
When i got the card home, i thought i'd check to see if the zoom level was the same with the Raytech software, something i hadn't previously done. All of the detail had gone from the chart, the only data being displayed was tide and current diamonds. Monday i spoke to the chandlers and Navionics, both denied any knowledge of how the data could have vanished from the card. The guy from Navionics told me to send the card back and he would have a look at it.
"Hold on a sec, you already looked at the card at the chandlers. Why didn't you swap it over there ?" He said he needed to look at it in more detail. "Why didn't you take it back with you, why did i have to drive 170 miles to fetch it ?" Silence. "Well ?" More silence.
Then he said "send it back and i'll look at it" Doh! During the course of the conversation he claimed the fault could be caused by my plotter, or the card reader, or the Raytech software. "But all of those are made to be used with your chart cards, can i not use the chart with YOUR reader and Raytech then ?" He said of course i could. "erm...ok well can i use it in my Raymarine plotter then ?" He said of course i could. But it might be a software conflict causing a problem. "Oh right, so i 'm the only one using your chart in a C90W or with Raytech"
After a lengthy telephone call, going nowhere, he'd blamed just about everything/one else but was adamant he'd need to see the card again before deciding what he could do.
On Monday 8th March i posted it back to them, 1st class recorded delivery. It was the morning of Friday 12th March before i finally managed to get hold of the man from Navioncs to see what was happening with my card. He's been a bit busy and had been out of the office for a couple of days, apparently, and had not had chance to look at my card. He told me he had a meeting about to start, which would take about an hour and he'd look at the card straight afterwards ad call be back.
Mid afternoon and still no call, so i call him. He's still busy and hasn't had a chance to look at it. He'll try to look at it sometime in the afternoon, but if not, definitely Monday. But, he now thinks he'll need to send the card to Italy for the "technical team" to look at it and see what's gone wrong. I told him "I'm not interested what's gone wrong, i just want a working card. Replace my card and carry our your post mortem at your leisure. It's a peice of cheap plastic to you, but it's my chart and i have thousands of pounds worth of brand new electronics relying on it." He was, in my opinion just being a nob. I was at his mercy, so he thought. My Raymarine plotter will not work with anyone else's charts and he knew it.
Well, as far as i'm concerned, without a working chart the plotter is unfit for use. Not quiet sure how i'd get on in court, but i'll give it a bash. I don't see how Raymarine can sell me a plotter that relies on Navionics cartography and then have Navionics refuse to deal with a problem, rendering the electronics useless. I called the chandler and explained the situation to the manager and told her i wanted to return the plotter for a refund and i was going to buy Garmin, which is what i should have done in the first place. She was pretty understanding and when i told her he wanted to send the card back to Italy, she said that was not on. She asked me to give her a little time and she'd speak to Navionics. She phoned me back shortly and said that Navionics were sending me a new card "as a goodwill gesture". Goodwill gesture my eye, it's a brand new cards and it's faulty. I thanked her for her help, which was very much appreciated.
Today, 16th of March, the new card has arrived. That's been three weekends without a chart. With the chart is a note that reads "This is a replacement chart fully tested. I suggest that you do not put it in to the Raytech software until i've come back to you" So i have a chart, don't know if it'll work until i get to the boat and i can't use the card reader Navionics sold me to plan a trip on the PC.
If i could turn the clock back a few weeks i would have Garmin equipment. I'd have the plotter, cartography and PC planning software all from one company and no need to buy a "special" card reader. If there was a problem, i would be getting bounced around between four different companies. Raymarine didn't want to know, but it's them that chose to use Navionics. Navioincs were considerably less than helpful, to the point of being downright and deliberately awkward. The only people interested in helping was the chandlers, a company i'll be using again.
I will never buy Navionics again and will not buy Raymarine either, while they use Navionics cartography. As it stands, i've been without a chart for nearly three weeks and have had to spend hours on the phone and two 170 mile round trips.
Oh, one last thing. Navionics Silver cartography is, IMO, worthless. Detail is limited and it is not supposed to be used at zoom levels greater than 1/2nm, according to Navionics. They also cannot be updated, the update path is to buy a Gold card. If you're buying electronics that have the option of embedded Silver cartography (such as Raymarine A series plotters), opt out of the cartography and buy a Gold card. Better yet, buy Garmin.
I was having a problem with the level of chart zoom, any more than 1/2 nm and the plotter screen just went blank and white. As i was unsure whether it was a plotter or cartography problem, so i phoned Raymarine, who promptly dismissed it as "cartography problem, nothing to do with us, phone Navionics." I called in to see the chandler i purchased the plotter from, hoping to be able to try the card in one of there plotters to establish if it was hardware or cartography, unfortunately they didn't have one set up, but they kindly leant me a spare chart card. I took this to the boat and it worked fine, so i set about getting Navionics to exchange the card. All i can say is, what a disgraceful company. I dropped the faulty card off at the chandlers and they said they'd get it exchanged for me, very good of them, because although i bought the plotter from them, i didn't buy the card from them. Still, all this marine electronics is supposed to have a Worldwide warranty, no point being stuck in Greece with faulty electronics, being told it's got to come back to the chandler that sold it. They were more than happy to get it sorted for me.
Anyway, one of the people from Navionics (Navionics UK consists of just two people) was visiting the chandlers that week so they kept the card there for him to sort out. He turned up, looked at the chart, examined it in a laptop, tried it in a plotter and sure enough, it didn't zoom past 1/2 mile. He proclaimed that something was odd and left the card with the chandler. I've yet to work out what was said, exactly and can't work out why he left the card there. I had to make a 170 mile trip to the chandlers to collect the card. Doh!
When i got the card home, i thought i'd check to see if the zoom level was the same with the Raytech software, something i hadn't previously done. All of the detail had gone from the chart, the only data being displayed was tide and current diamonds. Monday i spoke to the chandlers and Navionics, both denied any knowledge of how the data could have vanished from the card. The guy from Navionics told me to send the card back and he would have a look at it.
"Hold on a sec, you already looked at the card at the chandlers. Why didn't you swap it over there ?" He said he needed to look at it in more detail. "Why didn't you take it back with you, why did i have to drive 170 miles to fetch it ?" Silence. "Well ?" More silence.
Then he said "send it back and i'll look at it" Doh! During the course of the conversation he claimed the fault could be caused by my plotter, or the card reader, or the Raytech software. "But all of those are made to be used with your chart cards, can i not use the chart with YOUR reader and Raytech then ?" He said of course i could. "erm...ok well can i use it in my Raymarine plotter then ?" He said of course i could. But it might be a software conflict causing a problem. "Oh right, so i 'm the only one using your chart in a C90W or with Raytech"
After a lengthy telephone call, going nowhere, he'd blamed just about everything/one else but was adamant he'd need to see the card again before deciding what he could do.
On Monday 8th March i posted it back to them, 1st class recorded delivery. It was the morning of Friday 12th March before i finally managed to get hold of the man from Navioncs to see what was happening with my card. He's been a bit busy and had been out of the office for a couple of days, apparently, and had not had chance to look at my card. He told me he had a meeting about to start, which would take about an hour and he'd look at the card straight afterwards ad call be back.
Mid afternoon and still no call, so i call him. He's still busy and hasn't had a chance to look at it. He'll try to look at it sometime in the afternoon, but if not, definitely Monday. But, he now thinks he'll need to send the card to Italy for the "technical team" to look at it and see what's gone wrong. I told him "I'm not interested what's gone wrong, i just want a working card. Replace my card and carry our your post mortem at your leisure. It's a peice of cheap plastic to you, but it's my chart and i have thousands of pounds worth of brand new electronics relying on it." He was, in my opinion just being a nob. I was at his mercy, so he thought. My Raymarine plotter will not work with anyone else's charts and he knew it.
Well, as far as i'm concerned, without a working chart the plotter is unfit for use. Not quiet sure how i'd get on in court, but i'll give it a bash. I don't see how Raymarine can sell me a plotter that relies on Navionics cartography and then have Navionics refuse to deal with a problem, rendering the electronics useless. I called the chandler and explained the situation to the manager and told her i wanted to return the plotter for a refund and i was going to buy Garmin, which is what i should have done in the first place. She was pretty understanding and when i told her he wanted to send the card back to Italy, she said that was not on. She asked me to give her a little time and she'd speak to Navionics. She phoned me back shortly and said that Navionics were sending me a new card "as a goodwill gesture". Goodwill gesture my eye, it's a brand new cards and it's faulty. I thanked her for her help, which was very much appreciated.
Today, 16th of March, the new card has arrived. That's been three weekends without a chart. With the chart is a note that reads "This is a replacement chart fully tested. I suggest that you do not put it in to the Raytech software until i've come back to you" So i have a chart, don't know if it'll work until i get to the boat and i can't use the card reader Navionics sold me to plan a trip on the PC.
If i could turn the clock back a few weeks i would have Garmin equipment. I'd have the plotter, cartography and PC planning software all from one company and no need to buy a "special" card reader. If there was a problem, i would be getting bounced around between four different companies. Raymarine didn't want to know, but it's them that chose to use Navionics. Navioincs were considerably less than helpful, to the point of being downright and deliberately awkward. The only people interested in helping was the chandlers, a company i'll be using again.
I will never buy Navionics again and will not buy Raymarine either, while they use Navionics cartography. As it stands, i've been without a chart for nearly three weeks and have had to spend hours on the phone and two 170 mile round trips.
Oh, one last thing. Navionics Silver cartography is, IMO, worthless. Detail is limited and it is not supposed to be used at zoom levels greater than 1/2nm, according to Navionics. They also cannot be updated, the update path is to buy a Gold card. If you're buying electronics that have the option of embedded Silver cartography (such as Raymarine A series plotters), opt out of the cartography and buy a Gold card. Better yet, buy Garmin.
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