Navigation lights - permitted/obligatory combinations??

[Robert Wilson]

9m sailing boat - what lights may/must I use and which must I NOT use when sailing or motoring at night, please?

I am about to install a new tri-colour mast head light with all-round anchor-light atop.

I have separate bow port and starboard, pulpit-mounted lights (independently switched from the mast head) and a white pushpit-mounted stern light; again switched independently.
I also have a forward-facing "steaming-light" mounted half-way up the mast

If I only use the mast-top tricolour for sailing, no problem. Or I could use the original deck-level lights (but the stern light is a problem)

I want to have an alternative to my pushpit stern light because it is part-obscured by the self-steering vane.

So, if I am motoring at night what light combination should I show?
My advice-sheet states I must show port & starboard forward-facing lights (low-level or mast-head) and seems to indicate I should show an all-round white atop the mast and a deck level stern light: I think

Thanks in anticipation, as usual.

 

[JumbleDuck]

IRPCS, Rule 23.

 

[lw395]

For motoring, you don't want the stern light. Just all round white, plus red and green.
For sailing, either tricolour or stern+red+green.

To use the stern light for motoring, you need a masthead white which covers the other sectors, i.e. the sectors covered by the red and green.

 

[VicS]

9m sailing boat - what lights may/must I use and which must I NOT use when sailing or motoring at night, please?

I am about to install a new tri-colour mast head light with all-round anchor-light atop.

I have separate bow port and starboard, pulpit-mounted lights (independently switched from the mast head) and a white pushpit-mounted stern light; again switched independently.
I also have a forward-facing "steaming-light" mounted half-way up the mast

If I only use the mast-top tricolour for sailing, no problem. Or I could use the original deck-level lights (but the stern light is a problem)

I want to have an alternative to my pushpit stern light because it is part-obscured by the self-steering vane.

So, if I am motoring at night what light combination should I show?
My advice-sheet states I must show port & starboard forward-facing lights (low-level or mast-head) and seems to indicate I should show an all-round white atop the mast and a deck level stern light: I think

Thanks in anticipation, as usual.

The diagram below illustrates the legal combinations of lights that may be used by vessels under 12m under power and under sail.

A single all round light is permissible for vessels under 7m whose max speed does not exceed 7knots but the rule goes on to say " if practicable, also exhibit
sidelights;"

I suggest you read your copy of the Colregs, where it is all spelled out clearly together with arcs of visibility and visible ranges.

This diagram may also be useful ( but its not mine so accept no responsibility for it)

 

[prv]

9m sailing boat - what lights may/must I use and which must I NOT use when sailing or motoring at night, please?

I am about to install a new tri-colour mast head light with all-round anchor-light atop.

I have separate bow port and starboard, pulpit-mounted lights (independently switched from the mast head) and a white pushpit-mounted stern light; again switched independently.
I also have a forward-facing "steaming-light" mounted half-way up the mast

Sailing:

You can show either your tricolour on its own, or the deck-level port&stbd plus the stern light - except apparently it's obscured?

The tricolour is legal but not ideal inshore, as it often gets hidden among shore lights and at closer range is above the area where people are looking. A couple of times I've had yachts loom out of the darkness in the Solent and never seen their mast-top lights despite a thorough lookout, fortunately there was enough ambient light to see the hull itself at 50m or so, but on a dark night there wouldn't have been.

Motoring:

You can either show the deck-level port&stbd plus the stern (same caveat if it's blocked by the vane), or the deck-level port&stbd, no stern, and the masthead all-round white.

Can you not move the stern light so that it's clear of the windvane? Up onto the rail near one quarter, perhaps?

Pete

 

[Robert Wilson]

Thank you, one and all.
I am investigating re-mounting the stern light away from the vane, but it would need re-wiring . PIA

I take it that as in VicS's "under sail" diagram does not mean that I can show deck and masthead lights all together? My thinking there is poor visibility/large seas etc.

Similarly, if under power showing deck-level and masthead is not permitted?

And showing 360°white masthead and pushpit/ deck-level stern light together would not be permitted?

I'm wondering if I forget the all-round masthead anchor light and continue with a wee feeble anchor light on my forestay. I don't feel this would be the best option, especially in busy harbours or narrow sea-lochs on a rubbish night!

 

[prv]

I take it that as in VicS's "under sail" diagram does not mean that I can show deck and masthead lights all together?

Correct. If you look again you will see it says "Either" up the forestay. Not the clearest of diagrams...

Similarly, if under power showing deck-level and masthead is not permitted?

Deck level and masthead what? Red and green, no, but you can use a masthead white as a combined masthead (aka "steaming") and stern light if you want.

And showing 360°white masthead and pushpit/ deck-level stern light together would not be permitted?

Correct.

I'm wondering if I forget the all-round masthead anchor light and continue with a wee feeble anchor light on my forestay. I don't feel this would be the best option, especially in busy harbours or narrow sea-lochs on a rubbish night!

In a busy harbour the anchor light on the forestay will be far better than one on the masthead, even if it isn't quite so bright. Masthead anchor lights leave the hull completely invisible, and are out of the field of view of anyone actually in a position to hit you (assuming you don't anchor in shipping channels).

In my view the masthead white light is the least useful of those commonly fitted. I do have one, because it was there already, and I have it wired for possible use when motoring if I think it's necessary to have some light higher up for some reason. But otherwise I don't use it; at anchor I have a nice LED that hangs just above the anchor ball, has a wire running down the centre of the downhaul (replacing the braid core), and plugs into a socket in the anchor locker.

Pete

 

[PaulRainbow]

Motoring:

You can either show the deck-level port&stbd, steaming light, plus the stern (same caveat if it's blocked by the vane), or the deck-level port&stbd, no stern, and the masthead all-round white.

Can you not move the stern light so that it's clear of the windvane? Up onto the rail near one quarter, perhaps?

Pete

I'm sure it was a typo Pete, but you forget the bit i added in red

 

[GHA]

In my view the masthead white light is the least useful of those commonly fitted. I do have one, because it was there already, and I have it wired for possible use when motoring if I think it's necessary to have some light higher up for some reason. But otherwise I don't use it; at anchor I have a nice LED that hangs just above the anchor ball, has a wire running down the centre of the downhaul (replacing the braid core), and plugs into a socket in the anchor locker.

Same here, DIY white LED in an old oil lantern which never worked hanging under the anchor ball - works great.

Masthead white broke a while ago so this thread has got me thinking about making an even brighter all round white for the masthead so for motoring the stern could be turned off - less light pollution , more night vision and hopefully more chance of getting seen with a bright white high up in addition to the bicolour at the bow.

 

[Paddy Layback]

Same here, DIY white LED in an old oil lantern which never worked hanging under the anchor ball - works great.

Masthead white broke a while ago so this thread has got me thinking about making an even brighter all round white for the masthead so for motoring the stern could be turned off - less light pollution , more night vision and hopefully more chance of getting seen with a bright white high up in addition to the bicolour at the bow.

Good point about the night vision. I will put an independently switched, ultra-bright all round white LED up the masthead. Excellent idea.

 

[GHA]

Good point about the night vision. I will put an independently switched, ultra-bright all round white LED up the masthead. Excellent idea.

Soz for slight thread drift, but for cost of couple of London beers you can make your own..
http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?438936-DIY-anchor-light

 

[VicS]

Thank you, one and all.
I am investigating re-mounting the stern light away from the vane, but it would need re-wiring . PIA

I take it that as in VicS's "under sail" diagram does not mean that I can show deck and masthead lights all together? My thinking there is poor visibility/large seas etc.

Similarly, if under power showing deck-level and masthead is not permitted?

And showing 360°white masthead and pushpit/ deck-level stern light together would not be permitted?

I'm wondering if I forget the all-round masthead anchor light and continue with a wee feeble anchor light on my forestay. I don't feel this would be the best option, especially in busy harbours or narrow sea-lochs on a rubbish night!

The first of the two diagrams I posted is the one which shows legal combinations only ........ if the combination is not there it is not a "legal" one

I drew it specifically to answer the sort of questions you are asking when having difficulty explaining things in words on the Owners Association forum some years ago.

The tricolour and the all round white have some merits but some disadvantages too.

The single bulb in a tricolour is an obvious saving in power on a small sailing boat but that advantage is no longer valid with LED Nav lights now being readily available

The height when at sea esp in rough conditions is also an advantage.

However an anchor light at the mast head is above peoples normal field of view so not so good as one lower down in the fore triangle.

A light at the mast head in lieu of a deck level stern light can be invisible against a background of shore lights to the crew on a ships bridge, whereas a light closer to the water would be visible. The ferry following you into a harbour might not see you if your stern light merges with the background!

My preference is for a tricolour to use at sea when sailing and deck level lights to use as an alternative when more appropriate or together with a normal "steaming light" part way up the mast when motoring.
I don't have a fixed all round white. I hang a lantern in the fore triangle when anchored

 

[Topcat47]

When my stern lamp fails during a night crossing, I use my masthead anchor light and my deck lights. Other wise it's tricolour for sailing, steaming and deck lights (including stern lamp) for motoring. My stern lamp is at deck level and may be obscured by the ensign at times but no one has even complained.

 

[JumbleDuck]

A single all round light as mentioned by JD is permissible for vessels under 7m whose max speed does not exceed 7knots but the rule ( 23c ii) goes on to say " if practicable, also exhibit
sidelights;"

Er-hem. I may be predictable, but I am not completely predictable.

If you check, you will see that the passage I posted is 23 (d) (i) which is the derogation allowing power-driven vessels under 12m to show an all round white instead of a steaming light and sternlight. It is 23 (d) (ii) which gives the further derogation for power-driven vessels under 7m.

Incidentally, there is no 23 (c) (ii) - 23 (c) is the rule which mandates a flashing all-round red light for WIG aircraft when taking of or landing, and has limited application to the leisure boating world. Sniff.

 

[VicS]

Er-hem. I may be predictable, but I am not completely predictable.

If you check, you will see that the passage I posted is 23 (d) (i) which is the derogation allowing power-driven vessels under 12m to show an all round white instead of a steaming light and sternlight. It is 23 (d) (ii) which gives the further derogation for power-driven vessels under 7m.

Incidentally, there is no 23 (c) (ii) - 23 (c) is the rule which mandates a flashing all-round red light for WIG aircraft when taking of or landing, and has limited application to the leisure boating world. Sniff.

Now corrected to read, "A single all round light is permissible for vessels under 7m whose max speed does not exceed 7knots but the rule goes on to say " if practicable, also exhibit
sidelights;"

I'm paranoid about not mentioning this when i post my diagram of lights ever since some pedant called Professor Fog Horn or something similar from a Cebeebies television programme made a big thing about me not including it.

IRRC though he had a bit of a tiff with another forumite over some issue and stormed off in a huff and not posted since.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Now corrected to read, "A single all round light is permissible for vessels under 7m whose max speed does not exceed 7knots but the rule goes on to say " if practicable, also exhibit
sidelights;"

Still not the rule I quoted, though, and completely irrelevant to this case.

 

[nemodreams]

Rule 25
(d).
(i). A sailing vessel of less than 7 metres in length shall, if practicable, exhibit the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) or
(b) of this Rule, but if she does not, she shall have ready at hand an electric torch or lighted lantern showing a white
light which shall be exhibited in sufficient time to prevent collision.

Rule 23
(ii). a power-driven vessel of less than 7 metres in length whose maximum speed does not exceed 7 knots may in lieu
of the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule exhibit an all-round white light and shall, if practicable, also exhibit
sidelights;

ie - only when one is a power vessel can you show a white light and red/green.
When sailing - its slightly different wording - if no reg/green - then a white light ( torch )
You cannot when sailing show red/green + white all round.

 

[VicS]

Still not the rule I quoted, though, and completely irrelevant to this case.

True but I always add add the bit about vessels under 7m when I post my diagram as a result of being pissed about by Dr Fog Horn or what ever his name was. My corrected post is what I should have posted in the first place relevant to the current thread or not.

What you said is of course illustrated in my diagram

 

[JumbleDuck]

True but I always add add the bit about vessels under 7m when I post my diagram as a result of being pissed about by Dr Fog Horn or what ever his name was.

It's nice to see that you take correction so well. Some people might have held a grudge for years if an error they made was pointed out.