Navigation lights panel indication

[Travelling Westerly]

Strange one but hopefully somebody knows the answer....

Since changing all my nav light bulbs to LEDs, my navigation light panel indicator lights have stopped working. They flash once when I flick the lights on but dont stay on. If I change the bulbs back to normal bulbs then the panel indicator lights work again.

Anybody else have this issue?

 

[Martin_J]

Hard to guess what the circuitry is in your particular panel but it's likely that it monitors current to the bulb.

Having LED navigation lights has reduced the current through the detector that is used to switch on the indicator bulb.

You'd have to check out the circuit in more detail. Some were a coil of wire around a small switch. If that's the case then a few more turns might help.

What boat/panel is it?

 

[VicS]

deleted

 

[Travelling Westerly]

Hard to guess what the circuitry is in your particular panel but it's likely that it monitors current to the bulb.

Having LED navigation lights has reduced the current through the detector that is used to switch on the indicator bulb.

You'd have to check out the circuit in more detail. Some were a coil of wire around a small switch. If that's the case then a few more turns might help.

What boat/panel is it?

I was thinking along those lines too. Its a westerly but not sure who made the panels

 

[Travelling Westerly]

I'd check the negative connection to the panel .

What do you advise I check for? The panel nav light indicators works fine when the normal bulbs are put back in. All the switches work fine and so do theier respective lights.

 

[KompetentKrew]

Yeah, my indicator LEDs light but are now much dimmer since I installed a LED tricolour at the masthead - you can see the indicator LEDs at night, but not during the day, which results in me often leaving the lights on.

I have a PROS by Ditel switch bank similar to this, but with glass fuses.

Presumably the indicator LED is dim because less current is flowing through it. Can you see yours as lit if you switch all the lights out?

I'm guessing the flash when you switch yours on is because there's a capacitor or something in your model of LED masthead light, and that's the initial flow of current flowing through it.

I'm guessing the fix is a resistor somewhere.

 

[[70521]]

I was thinking along those lines too. Its a westerly but not sure who made the panels

Might be worth contacting @halcyon I think he was involved.

But from what you are reporting makes no sense.

 

[prv]

But from what you are reporting makes no sense.

It makes perfect sense. The mimics work by sensing current flow, so that if a bulb burns out then the mimic light also goes out. Fit an LED lamp that draws vastly less current, and the mimic won’t register. The design didn’t anticipate the invention of such lamps.

The same problem occurs when fitting LED lamps to cars designed for incandescent bulbs and equipped with bulb failure detection.

Pete

 

[VicS]

I was thinking along those lines too. Its a westerly but not sure who made the panels

This is the panel supplied for certain Westerlies by KDD Powercentre .. The mimic shows which lights are switched on but do not indicate a failed bulb or bad connection

 

[pandos]

What do you advise I check for? The panel nav light indicators works fine when the normal bulbs are put back in. All the switches work fine and so do theier respective lights.

Have you tried to reverse the polarity in the light fittings and then inserting the LEDs (assuming the led only fits in one way)

Could it be that the mimic light is wired in series with the main light and once the main light blows there is no circuit...this may be affected by the polarity of the led. Which is a diode in itself as is the mimic light...

 

[prv]

Have you tried to reverse the polarity in the light fittings and then inserting the LEDs (assuming the led only fits in one way)

How’s that supposed to help?

Either the LED lamp is designed to work either way round, as many are, in which case the panel won’t see anything different. Or the lamp will no longer work and the OP’s in a worse position than he was before.

Pete

 

[Travelling Westerly]

Thanks for all your advice, doesn't sound like a quick fix.
I'll contact Halcyon and KDD (is that the same same person?)

 

[[70521]]

Thanks for all your advice, doesn't sound like a quick fix.
I'll contact Halcyon and KDD (is that the same same person?)

Yes.

 

[[70521]]

It makes perfect sense. The mimics work by sensing current flow, so that if a bulb burns out then the mimic light also goes out. Fit an LED lamp that draws vastly less current, and the mimic won’t register. The design didn’t anticipate the invention of such lamps.

The same problem occurs when fitting LED lamps to cars designed for incandescent bulbs and equipped with bulb failure detection.

Pete

I have one of @halcyon /KDD units and use LEDS on all my navigation lights, and don't experience the symptoms described. Saying that the unit is two years old and there may have been some component update since the original.

 

[pandos]

How’s that supposed to help?

Either the LED lamp is designed to work either way round, as many are, in which case the panel won’t see anything different. Or the lamp will no longer work and the OP’s in a worse position than he was before.

Pete

Some LEDs are physically able to fit into holders but are electronically different so that they may not work when fitted one way (I had this when I changed from incandescent bulbs in my saloon fittings)

It may be that his new lamp will work the other way around but his panel will see things differently,

Also he will not be worse off as he can obviously switch back or continue his investigations whilst he will have ruled out a potentially easy cheap fix....but what if it worked!

It was a suggestion...thats all it was, no need to be so snarly...

 

[PaulRainbow]

Most panels are not mimic panels, easy to check, if you take a bulb out and the panel LED stays on it is an indicator ligh (just tells you the switch is on) rather than a mimic panel, where the LED goes out if the bulb fails (as described by Martin_J and PRV.

Later mimic panels use solid state circuitry but earlier ones, like the OPs, would almost certainly use reed switches with a coil of wire around them (as per post #2). The suggestion of adding some coils of wire would be good, if possible. There is no point in adding resistors, if you add enough resistance to make the light work, you may as well put the incandescent lamps back in.

 

[prv]

It was a suggestion...thats all it was, no need to be so snarly...

Perhaps he should try rubbing cheese on the back of the panel. I suggest Sainsburys Basics stilton, there's no need to go too fancy.

Pete

 

[[70521]]

Most panels are not mimic panels, easy to check, if you take a bulb out and the panel LED stays on it is an indicator ligh (just tells you the switch is on) rather than a mimic panel, where the LED goes out if the bulb fails (as described by Martin_J and PRV.

I can confirm that this is what my panel does.

 

[pandos]

Perhaps he should try rubbing cheese on the back of the panel. I suggest Sainsburys Basics stilton, there's no need to go too fancy.

Pete

That's another suggestion that would cost very little and if the OP thought it worthy of trying then good for him.

Personally I think you are probably being facetious.

Knowing that there are at least two diodes in play and possibly a third one in the masthead fitting, whilst not knowing how the the panel is wired or designed to work, only the most arrogant would dismiss a simple suggestion which has proved to operate in other circumstances.

 

[Laysula]

I have an older Bavaria of 1993 vintage and when I replaced mine to LED my panel just flashes constantly. I just learned to live with it.