Navigating without a log

[Frank Holden]

About 4 years ago met up with a Swiss couple near Puerto Montt.... they were planning on removing their compass... issues with their cockpit table as I recall... said they had never used it since leaving Europe.

Met them again last year in NZ... don't know if they had removed it or not...

I would suggest that anyone who has ever tried to hand steer a yacht on a heavily overcast night with no moon will know that you need an ** illuminated** compass card to steer by. Yes you can steer to the wind but that only works for so long.

Trying to use GPS COG or any sort of electronic compass display just does not work.... do not ask how I know this.....

 

[john_morris_uk]

Under what certifications was he driving this tug boat? How big was it? Length? Tonnage?

 

[Kukri]

About 4 years ago met up with a Swiss couple near Puerto Montt.... they were planning on removing their compass... issues with their cockpit table as I recall... said they had never used it since leaving Europe.

Met them again last year in NZ... don't know if they had removed it or not...

I would suggest that anyone who has ever tried to hand steer a yacht on a heavily overcast night with no moon will know that you need an ** illuminated** compass card to steer by. Yes you can steer to the wind but that only works for so long.

Trying to use GPS COG or any sort of electronic compass display just does not work.... do not ask how I know this.....

er... yes. See the thread on the loss of the yawl "IOLAIRE"

(There was another and much worse disaster involving a yacht named IOLAIRE in 1918, which will come up on Google. Gaelic for (golden) eagle.)

 

[Graham_Wright]

Under what certifications was he driving this tug boat? How big was it? Length? Tonnage?

It was a harbour tug. He had an appropriate ticket, but, while you're here, can you pass Yachtmaster Offshore practical using only electronic nav aids?

 

[john_morris_uk]

It was a harbour tug. He had an appropriate ticket, but, while you're here, can you pass Yachtmaster Offshore practical using only electronic nav aids?

Harbour tugs still have to pass their survey for commercial use. That certainly includes having a working compass. I can’t remember if a log is a requirement.

Regarding YM using only electronic aids. No you can’t. You are expected to use it appropriately but you’re also expected to be able to manage without.

(From my phone approaching Cap de La Hague!)

 

[[2574]]

Radar as a fall back? Probably have adequate returns on the screen to navigate from Clyde to NI (Helpful if there was a paper chart too!)

 

[LadyInBed]

Trying to use GPS COG or any sort of electronic compass display just does not work.... do not ask how I know this.....

Correct, but you were using the wrong display. A compass doesn't display COG, it displays the boats head, so you should have been displaying Heading on the electronic compass. Many compass apps alow you to select an analog compass display rather than a digital one.

 

[scruff]

The kit onboard breaks. It does sometimes. I know this.

We have two fixed, independent gps on board - chart table and cockpit plotters. Plus my two phones, plus the boat's tablet plus my gps watch.

That's before you get to my wife's/ other crew's phone & gps watch etc...

There is plenty of redundancy on board - we've not fitted the paddle wheel format least two seasons now and are still alive and managing just fine..

 

[capnsensible]

We have two fixed, independent gps on board - chart table and cockpit plotters. Plus my two phones, plus the boat's tablet plus my gps watch.

That's before you get to my wife's/ other crew's phone & gps watch etc...

There is plenty of redundancy on board - we've not fitted the paddle wheel format least two seasons now and are still alive and managing just fine..

No problem with that. However lots of people dont have all that on board in the event of a primary system failure. Recent progress has made that happen. Hurrah and opens up a big world to those who otherwise might never have set off.

But without lots of backups when kit breaks on a lot of boats, you may have a problem.

Personally had a fair few experiences of Sods Law!

 

[Mark-1]

It's not speed, it's distance.

Well you know time so I'm not sure there's much of a distinction in the real world. If you have one you have the other.

The compass glass was scored and virtually opaque.

So it wasn't opaque.

 

[Mark-1]

Regarding YM using only electronic aids. No you can’t.

So you have to use a mechanical log or a long bit of string with knots in it? In which case how to we know this Tug boat didn't have a suitable bit of string to measure his speed (and therefore distance covered for Graham).

 

[Mark-1]

Trying to use GPS COG or any sort of electronic compass display just does not work.... do not ask how I know this.....

I've never had the slightest trouble doing this (and I do mean COG, not Heading.)

 

[Mark-1]

Some of the participants in this thread should google Marvin Creamer and have their minds totally blown.

 

[capnsensible]

I don't have a log. I pretty much know how fast my boat is going without.

What if you are on another boat?

 

[capnsensible]

So you have to use a mechanical log or a long bit of string with knots in it? In which case how to we know this Tug boat didn't have a suitable bit of string to measure his speed (and therefore distance covered for Graham).

No. You use other methods to fix your position.

 

[capnsensible]

Some of the participants in this thread should google Marvin Creamer and have their minds totally blown.

510 days! What a waste, imagine if he had done it properly.

 

[capnsensible]

In years gone by I often skippered an 88 ton Tug on the Clyde. It was demoted to R&R. The hardest thing was managing quite a lot of wobbly people at the end of a days cruising. :nonchalance:

 

[Mark-1]

Regarding YM using only electronic aids. No you can’t.

So you have to use a mechanical log or a long bit of string with knots in it? In which case how to we know this Tug boat didn't have a suitable bit of string to measure his speed

No. You use other methods to fix your position.

Great, which is what this Tugboat does without an electronic log.

 

[Mark-1]

What if you are on another boat?

I've got no empirical evidence to back this up but I think I know on other boats too. I think everyone knows when the log is badly calibrated even on other people's boats so we must know roughly what speed we're doing. Be interesting to do a few tests to find out. I can only offer one example of someone whos estimate was measurably better than his log.

 

[Birdseye]

Son took a tug across from the Clyde to Northern Ireland. His nav was completely dependent on GPS.

When chastised, he told me no tugboats have logs. He had a compass but couldn't read it as the dome was obscured.

He became stroppy when asked what would happen with a GPS outage.
Views?

An accident waiting to happen with that attitude. Doesnt matter what other tugs do - he has a legal duty to keep a log and will lose his ticket if an accident investigation finds he hasnt done so.

GPS outage isnt a significant threat - only ver happened to me once since the system started and that was in an electrical storm off Ilfacombe at 0200 hours. Pi55ing rain, no vis so steer away from land and wait for improvement. The log wouldnt have helped - I knew where I was when the GPS failed and I had a paper chart. The latter is most important. Does your son have those?