Navigating a TSS

Searush said:
There was a racing yacht fined several Grand a year or two ago.
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Any chance you can remember just how far out he was Searush ?

was he heading the wrong way up a TSS or 135' instead of 90'

Seastate can push a boat 45' while maintaining a heading on the bow which appears to be what the rules dictate.
 
PaulGooch said:
Some information that may be of use here :

http://www.redensigngroup.org/lrgtxt/mcga-mnotice.htm?textobjid=59809BACB29DBED8
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It doesn't clarify it completely, but does say that fishing vessels must navigate in accordance with the TSS in the lanes, but may take any course in the seperation zone. Fishing vessels are subject to special rules of course, so it doesn't automatically follow that leisure vessels can do the same, but in the abscence of any rule to the contrary (and no-ones found one yet on this thread), then i'd say it's OK to do it?
 
Agreed and the reference to taking the shortest route across the TSS backs up the argument to alter course in the Pink bit.
It is shorter across the TSS to take a direct route to Boulogne in the pink bit than to continue at 90' to either lane.

But I am not confident enough to risk £2000 in fines :eek:
 
DAKA said:
Agreed and the reference to taking the shortest route across the TSS backs up the argument to alter course in the Pink bit.
It is shorter across the TSS to take a direct route to Boulogne in the pink bit than to continue at 90' to either lane.

But I am not confident enough to risk £2000 in fines :eek:
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According to the MCA website the contact details are:-
HM Coastguard
Langdon Battery
Swingate
Dover
Kent
CT15 5NA

Tel : 01304 210008
Fax : 01304 202137

RCC Manager : Mr Spike Hughes
Tel : 01304 218501
Operational Area :
Reculver Towers to BeachyHead,Belle Tout

Maybe call them and put them on the spot?
 
DAKA said:
This is an open forum and the masses are welcome but if you don't mind we are attempting to have a serious debate about pink bending :p
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Oh, sorry mate, didn't realise you were bending lol

Back to he serious bit... how about planning routes for along the coast and cross at Dungeness and crossing straight over. Before you leave Eastbourne, give the CG a call and inform them of your passage plan, including specifics about where you intend to cross the TSS ? If they give you the go-ahead, you know you'll not have any problems with the course.

From what i've read, it seems to make sense to travel along the separation zone to enable you to better cross both lanes at 90°. The key thing about complying with the TSS rules seem to obviously be safety, which is why the wording might seem a little less than set in stone in places. For instance, crossing one lane at 90° across the stern of one vessel and continuing, might put you in the path of another vessel. In that case, crossing at exactly 90° would be dangerous.
 
PaulGooch said:
For instance, crossing one lane at 90° across the stern of one vessel and continuing, might put you in the path of another vessel. In that case, crossing at exactly 90° would be dangerous.
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If I understand it correctly, the 90 deg rule is so that you do have a clear collision situation, so that vessels can take apropriate action in line with the colregs.
 
Rule 10 is probably one of the most ill-concieved rules in the book, but at least in this particular respect it is pretty straightforward, so long as you go by the letter of the rule, rather than half-remembered misinterpretations!

(1) There is nothing to prevent a vessel which is crossing a separation scheme from going into the separation zone. (Rule 10a ii only applies to vessels using the TSS, not to those that are crossing it: it is self-evidently impossible to cross a TSS without crossing the separation zone)

(2) You have to cross the traffic lanes at right angles, but there is no restriction on your course when you are within the separation zone (Rule 10c specifically refers to the Traffic lanes, not to the TSS as a whole nor to the separation zone)

(3) It is your heading that has to be at right angles to the traffic flow, not your track (Rule 10c specifies "heading"). So even if you weren't joking, a GPS with someone else's track on it would not solve the problem. And unless your passage planning involves working out exactly when you are going to cross the TSS, you can't predict where your waypoints need to be. It is better to steer a compass course than to steer to waypoint

(4) Fines for contravention by recreational craft are rare but extremely severe (average just under £12,000). Fines for commercial vessels are slightly less rare, but are very much less severe (average less than £3000, usually less than £2000):-

Vessel............Fine.............Incident............Hearing date
Motor cruiser..20000...........Rule 10.............29/03/2010
Yacht............15000............Rule 10.............05/05/2006
Cargo...........14000............Rule 10.............15/03/2004
Motor cruiser...6000...........Rule 10..............30/09/2008
Yacht.............6000............Rule 10.............02/07/2008
Cargo............3700............Collision (with lightship)..27/10/2008
Fishing..........2700............Collision.............27/10/2008
Cargo...........2500............Rule 10...............14/11/2005
Cargo...........2000............Rule 10...............06/01/2006
Cargo...........2000............Rule 10...............14/04/2005
Cargo...........1000............Rule 10...............21/12/2004
Cargo........... 500.............Rule 10..............12/09/2006
Cargo...........500..............Rule 10.............11/12/2006
Cargo...........500..............Rule 10.............15/08/2005
Cargo...........400..............Rule 10.............02/07/2004

Data provided by the MCA
 
DAKA said:
Any chance you can remember just how far out he was Searush ?

was he heading the wrong way up a TSS or 135' instead of 90'

Seastate can push a boat 45' while maintaining a heading on the bow which appears to be what the rules dictate.
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From memory (and that wasn't good even when I was a lad!) he was taking the p and cutting across at about 45deg following a direct path. And with tides in the Channel only running at around 1kt, one would have have to be almost drifting to be 45deg off track.
 
Searush said:
From memory (and that wasn't good even when I was a lad!) he was taking the p and cutting across at about 45deg following a direct path. And with tides in the Channel only running at around 1kt, one would have have to be almost drifting to be 45deg off track.
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According to the chart shown in ttp://www.mcga.gov.uk/c4mca/mcga07-...utions/mcga-ops-enforcement-prosecution06.htm he was going in exactly the wrong direction:
Last Tuesday morning the Sopra No 8 was travelling quite correctly along the English coast. However at approximately 0800 UTC the vessel crossed the separation line and entered the Southwest lane but was travelling in a north easterly direction. The vessel remained in the lane for approximately 2 hours and travelled nearly 18 miles the wrong way up the lane. During this period Mr Koch met 21 other vessels coming down the lane and two crossing vessels. He caused 7 of these vessels to take evasive action. One encounter with a crossing vessel caused particular concern.
Penalty: Fined £15,000 and £2,600 costs.
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