Naval Flags at half-mast today. Why?

[capnsensible]

Sadly, a friend of mine, Alan, died yesterday.

An ex Royal Marine, he was a much liked and well known character in our marina, skipper of a tourist boat and thorughly good bloke.

As a mark of respect, the flags in the marina have been flown at half-mast today.

That is a gesture I will remember long after some comments on here are long gone.

R I P

 

[sailorman]

I think one can only pity some one with so little compassion, it must be terrible to live like that

It was trapezeartists post

 

[maxi77]

It was trapezeartists post

Indeed and I was but adding my view to to whipper snappers, not suggesting whipper snapper was the unfortunate one.

 

[JustMelfort]

It's a sad day when a brave man dies to defend the right to democracy and free speech. Sadly, free speech allows insensitive pr123s to have a say too. Perhaps OTT - like the flags. Mmmph

 

[zarathustra]

On TV whenever I see that aircraft landing and the coffin being brought out my heart aches for the casualty and the family - it does not matter who they were.

And does your heart ache for the tens of thousands of innocent and unfortunate Afghan and Iraqi civilians who have been slaughtered/maimed/lives ruined by the evil and immoral invasion of their country as "revenge" for a group of saudi's hijacking four US planes 9 years ago!!!

 

[trapezeartist]

Hmm, I seem to have touched some raw nerves. But please look again at my words: "a bit overblown". Not "I want to dance on their graves."

Fortunately not too many people die these days doing their job: sometimes lifeboatmen, fishermen, policemen, the occasional industrial accident, car, van and lorry drivers, and a few soldiers. Many many more people die in other circumstances, but they're all someone's father, husband, son, whatever. If we start a wailing and gnashing of teeth over one little group of them, doesn't that imply a disrespect to those who don't receive the same response? Anyway, I'm glad I've got a few people thinking about it.

PS All gender-specific words above are intended to apply equally to both genders. It's just a foible of our language.

 

[nonitoo]

And does your heart ache for the tens of thousands of innocent and unfortunate Afghan and Iraqi civilians who have been slaughtered/maimed/lives ruined by the evil and immoral invasion of their country as "revenge" for a group of saudi's hijacking four US planes 9 years ago!!!

Not sure what I did to merit this rant.

I have not reached this age without encountering death, both violent and natural, and have always been conscious of the fact that each one is a son, daughter, father, mother, brother or sister.

The political aspect I leave to others.

Tom

 

[Ubergeekian]

Sadly, a friend of mine, Alan, died yesterday.

An ex Royal Marine, he was a much liked and well known character in our marina, skipper of a tourist boat and thorughly good bloke.

As a mark of respect, the flags in the marina have been flown at half-mast today.

If the flags in the original question were for a local lad then it does indeed seem a nice gesture. When my grandfather died, twenty five year ago, almost every house on the street in which he lived drew their blinds/curtains while the funeral was in progress. It was an immensely touching and comforting gesture - a way of saying "we are thinking of you" without being intrusive. I don't think many communities are as cohesive and as static as that any more.

 

[cliffordpope]

If it's a single dockyard and the ships alongside showing respect to a local sailor then that's entirely appropriate, and one can only respect the gesture.

But the image presented by the original post

"Just sailed up through Portsmouth Harbour and every ships flag is at half-mast"

is of the entire Grand Fleet lined up as far as the eye can see as if for Queen Victoria's funeral.
So I was merely asking what further gesture would be possible for an event of that scale?

 

[maxi77]

Hmm, I seem to have touched some raw nerves. But please look again at my words: "a bit overblown". Not "I want to dance on their graves."

Fortunately not too many people die these days doing their job: sometimes lifeboatmen, fishermen, policemen, the occasional industrial accident, car, van and lorry drivers, and a few soldiers. Many many more people die in other circumstances, but they're all someone's father, husband, son, whatever. If we start a wailing and gnashing of teeth over one little group of them, doesn't that imply a disrespect to those who don't receive the same response? Anyway, I'm glad I've got a few people thinking about it.

PS All gender-specific words above are intended to apply equally to both genders. It's just a foible of our language.

The thing you miss was that it was the person who died's community that were showing respect, something you seem in public to have little of.

Many years ago my brother who was a fireman was killed in an accident, not at work, even so almost every off duty fireman in the city came to his funeral, in your view that was wrong, where as I am still moved by their respect. I might add I an also an armed forces veteran and do find your lack of compassion and respect for those who die in the service of their country quite objectionable.

 

[Ubergeekian]

The thing you miss was that it was the person who died's community that were showing respect, something you seem in public to have little of.

To be fair, we didn't know that. It sounded as if ever ship in the entire navy (all three dozen of them, these days) had their flags at half mast, not just the flags from the dead marine's home base (town?)

I might add I an also an armed forces veteran and do find your lack of compassion and respect for those who die in the service of their country quite objectionable.

There is no moral imperative to support our troops abroad.

 

[grumpy_o_g]

To be fair, we didn't know that. It sounded as if ever ship in the entire navy (all three dozen of them, these days) had their flags at half mast, not just the flags from the dead marine's home base (town?)

Would it be wrong be for the entire Navy to show respect then and only appropriate for a part of it to do so?

There is no moral imperative to support our troops abroad.

There's no such thing as a moral imperative - morals are a personal and subjective thing so any imperative can only come from oneself, even if it is influenced by peer pressure. If you choose not to support your country's troops overseas that is your right and choice, within the legal limits of treason, etc. I would suggest that perhaps people who don't support the troops on the ground and at sea could register their protest by going to live in Iraq or Afghanistan and having nothing nothing whatsoever to do with the UK.

This country gradually seems to be understanding (probably because the media want it to now) that blaming the troops for a war is akin to blaming a hammer for hitting a nail. Not a perfect analogy but close enough.

Note I have used your word "troops" and interpret this to mean those not involved with the political decision-making.

 

[Pussersmate]

It all gets a bit overdone though, doesn't it? You would think the squaddies didn't realise that getting shot was a risk of the job.

What next? Hospitals fly a flag at half-mast every time a patient dies? DVLA flies a flag at half-mast every time a motorist gets killed? Treasury flies a flag at half-mast every time a taxpayer dies (unless they fall within the scope of IHT)?

What can I say, this post prompted me to register and respond.....

Ignorance is bliss I suppose.

The Royal Marines are part of the Royal Navy / Admiralty - they are as one effectively, you mourn your family don't you? Why wouldn't they mourn theirs? The Royal Navy also has links with various other Regiments, at home and abroad and so what, it's a mark of respect for a fellow service man, you have a problem with that?

I hope I never meet you, your post sucks, it beggars belief what you have said, how pathetic you have made yourself look. Considering that you also claim to be a sailor, I think it adds insult to injury!

I'm an ex - Bootneck, so is my brother, my father and my grandfather and countless others before them - I'd ike to teach you some manners one day!

 

[trapezeartist]

I might add I an also an armed forces veteran and do find your lack of compassion and respect for those who die in the service of their country quite objectionable.

"Who die in the service of their country" is an emotive phrase. I am trying to be a bit more objective, and place an equal degree of importance on every life lost. Is that really so objectionable?

 

[oldfatgit]

It is a strange thing the Military Service. I've been doing it for far too long and have attended too many funerals and repatriation events not to know. As a potential corpse I find the thought of loads of people marking my passing with slightly embarrassed surprise; after all, would they turn up if they knew what I know about me? However, I firmly believe that all such ceremonies are of great importance to the families and loved ones of the dead. Time and again those that are left to grieve express really profound thanks for the support of the Service, family, friends but particularly complete strangers. It helps them and so I'm all for it. It is a remarkably remote possibility that I will come to such a sticky end (too old, too fat and too much of a git to catch a bullet you understand), however, if I do, rest assured that my loved ones will appreciate all expressions of sympathy and support. So hats off and flags at half mast. Muffle the drums and .... well express sympathy and support.

Do remember that even though we choose this life, we don't expect to cop it. All young men (and some women) think they are indestructible; indeed the state relies on that belief to fill the ranks. But in these go get 'em, hard nosed, commercial days, there is still a place, indeed need, for service. Idealistic and naive it may be, but it is there and we all benefit from it. When anybody dies before their time it is a tragedy, but when they put themselves in harms way for the benefit of others that is worthy of some extra respect.

If they are actually hoodwinked by the state to serve a bad cause, well that does not reflect badly on them, but rather on the politicians who exploit them.

 

[Rum_Pirate]

It's a sad day when a brave man dies to defend the right to democracy and free speech.

It is even sadder when those that live on, because of the sacrifice of those that have died, ignore the essence of that sacrifice and because of the free speech that they are allowed to enjoy, make remarks that they would not have been allowed to make if the sacrifice had not been made to ensure freedom of speech.

Suggest some that make derogatory remarks go and live under the rules and regulation as and attitudes in those countries where free speech is NOT allowed.

Than they might 'think' a different tune because as sure as anything they will not then dare voice their opinions aloud.

I pity them as they do not realise how good they have it.

 

[ricky_s]

It's a sad day when a brave man dies to defend the right to democracy and free speech.

What has free speech and democracy got to do with any of the current conflicts?

 

[jonjo]

"Who die in the service of their country" is an emotive phrase.

Trapezeartist you will not make any headway in this place no matter how reasonable your view. There is a disproportionate body of superannuated military types on this forum.

As a civilian with no military connections I do not understand the rationale that mandates national grieving over every service death in Afghanistan. Sure some of those deaths are a consequence of acts of heroism and deserve special recognition but does every one warrant vastly more recognition than the death of an HGV driver?

Since WWII how many HGV drivers have died serving their country compared to military action under fire? The numbers are probably similar.

Having made these points I think the modern rituals broadcast from Wooton Basset and at Prime Ministers Questions should continue. Second rate politicians projected our under quipped forces into two futile and avoidable wars, so the weekly recounting of the human cost is a salutary lesson for us all.

 

[curve]

Exactly how do HGV drivers serve their country? They serve the interest of their commercial organisation but I don't think their job is comparable with a soldiers lot.

 

[jonjo]

Exactly how do HGV drivers serve their country?

They voluntarily face daily risk providing a vital service to the country.

They serve the interest of their commercial organisation but I don't think their job is comparable with a soldiers lot.

Military people occasionally face very high risk while serving the Crown and are rewarded with a pay packet.

HGV drivers serve the civilian population for a wage packet.