Nav lights

[Twister_Ken]

Seem to remember the forum has been here before, a 12-month or more back, and we got round to discussing niceties like whether the engine is propelling machinery, or whether the gearbox, shaft and prop are propelling machinery. No clear consensus then, either!

 

[Guest]

Re: Nav lights .... Ships Officers ?

Never heard a serious discussion between enough OOW's to say one way or another ...

But IMHO - a good powerful torch shone onto the sails or about the boat in event of a ship being close or closing is far better than a 5 - 10W light ... Before anyone shouts - COLREGs ....... I know about the rules ... but still say as another has - shine the light - NOT at the Bridge of the ship - that is daft !! unless ship is bearing down on you ... about the boat - make it visible. Ships speed is often greater than yours - and he'll turn away.

Tricolour ... to say it's more visible than low down lights IMHO is not so ... shore lights tend to mask all yacht lights to a good degree low or high ... my dislkie of the tricolour is it's possibility to not have as distinct colour sectors as separate lights do ... Yes they do have the angles and they do work but once that boat starts moving / heeling / swinging - it all goes to pot ! Separate lights are better to show the change of red to green etc. by virtue of the separation as well as the angle.

I've met many yachts at sea ... inshore waters etc. while on the bridge of ships - and the above comments and personal opinion based on that ... Yes have what ever nav lights are correct for your baot and use them ... but IMHO have a flashlight handy - as a safety measure ... YOU can see ship far easier than he can see you ... In fact next time out at night - have a look and see even with ships lights there can be confusion ... shore lights behind ... cabin lights ... deck lights ....... all sorts ..... and he has 110V high wattage squirrel cage lights ..... !

 

[pyrojames]

Fine by me. Cones/balls were new to me on arrival in Europe. Never seen in Oz, except perhaps on commercial vessels .

 

[Mudhook]

Well it's funny that use of a cone is considered "quaint" - I'd say superfluous - on the east coast at least, and yet the use of an anchor ball is almost universal. So these aren't daft skippers who don't know or can't be bothered. Apart from the silly routine outlined about someone jumping to it and getting the cone up when you go from just-in-case idle to in gear, the truth is that even in congested waters it's usually pretty clear who is motoring and who is not. Sure, occasionally you find someone with just the mainsail up who is indeed sailing, but by and large it's very easy to figure out who is motoring without reference to a cone. On the east coast the use of the cone is so rare as to be almost confined to "YM examiner on board" - and Schmoo of course. Yet I've never once been wrong-footed by a boat that was motoring and didn't have a cone up. And I think we all know that when motoring without a cone we are capable of being taken for a sailing vessel, and act accordingly.

Regards, Mudhook

 

[mel80]

[ QUOTE ]
Rule 3 (c) The term "sailing vessel" means any vessel under sail provided that propelling machinery, if fitted, is not being used.

So this does not specifically say being used for propolsion, but only in use. Still less than clear cut if you ask me.


[/ QUOTE ]

It's more clear cut if you consider that the engine alone is not "propelling machinery". Propelling machinery would be the engine + transmission. If the propellor is not connected to the engine (e.g. in neutral) it wouldn't be classed as 'in use' under the rules.

 

[Guest]

I actually have a real problem motor sailing. The engine mounts are soft and the shaft is short. So motoring at an angle is terrible. I either sail or motor but this begs the question does a motor boat with a steadying sail need a cone? Does a ketch with a little mizzen to stop it rolling need a cone?

If not should a sailing boat with a flapping main sail (because of a lazy skipper) need a cone?

Colregs:
"A vessel proceeding under sail when also being propelled by machinery shall exhibit forward where it can best be seen a conical shape, apex downwards."

The rules starts with "A vessel..." not with "A sailing vessel..."

So is "proceeding" meaning the sail is driving? Since the rule says it is "ALSO" being propelled by machinery". So if it flaps it can not be propelling the boat.

I agree with Shmoo the colregs can be discussed for hours but the main thing is never to mislead any other vessel especially when it is to your advantage.

Back to the original question: I probably would just fit a Ticolor.

 

[ditchcrawler]

I have seen several boats on the East coast with motoring cones up.I agree that for short spells most people do not bother,but last year a group of us went up to Lowestoft from the Deben for the Boat Show & as not much wind we motorsailed nearly all the way & all had cones up.Aren't we good boys !
Could be that we are all old farts from the same club as Schmoo.

 

[shmoo]

Ditch - you could at least spell it right. THERE IS NO 'C' IN SHMOO. I will come round in the middle of the night and fill your seaboots with gleet if you spell it with a 'C'

 

[VicS]

To get back to something a little closer to the original question
[ QUOTE ]
The best combination is a mast head tri & then pulpit + stern + steaming

[/ QUOTE ] I would say a tri/white rather than just a tri. You then have the option to display an all round white at the top of the mast in place of a steaming light and a stern light, when appropriate to do so and away from shorelights. You also have a back up in the event of the steaming light failing.

I have mixed feelings about pulpit mounted bicolours. They seem very vulnerable to damage in crowded marinas and anchorages but do cause a bit less glare than side lights in mist or drizzle I guess.

 

[jimbaerselman]

[ QUOTE ]
We don't have a tricolour - in busy waters would you......?
a) light the masthead light and risk being mistaken for a motor vessel
b) do the 'right' thing and just use the pulpit and stern lights


[/ QUOTE ] By all means, light the masthead light, but if you do so you must apply colregs as a power vessel, and preferably lower your jib so that no one will even think you're travelling under sail alone (even if you are!).

Better: light your sails with a powerful light.