Nav lights

[jb2006]

We don't have a tricolour - in busy waters would you......?
a) light the masthead light and risk being mistaken for a motor vessel
b) do the 'right' thing and just use the pulpit and stern lights

/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[wooslehunter]

Depends how big & fast the boat is. Under 7m AND 7kts or less and you can use a single all round white light.

Assuming you're not in the above category, you need either: a tri-colour or your option "b" for sailing. Bear in mind that as soon as you switch on your engine, you're a motor vessel so need a steaming light as well. Option "a" is not an option. Have a collision & watch your insurance co walk away.......

The best combination is a mast head tri & then pulpit + stern + steaming. That'a why most yachts have this.

 

[capnsensible]

On the eighth day there were created the International Rules for the Prevention of Collision at Sea. And it was said 'Abide by these Rules my Son and you may venture forth Upon The Mighty Oceans under the Great And Wise Protection of the International Maritime Court'. And thus the Evil Insurers Eye was Justly Smitten. Amen.

 

[jb2006]

[ QUOTE ]

The best combination is a mast head tri & then pulpit + stern + steaming. That'a why most yachts have this.

[/ QUOTE ]

Very few new yachts are equipped with a tricolour - and it's not always on the "option list" . Anyway, we don't have one!

Have never yet put the masthead light on while sailing - but lots of yachts in the Solent do.

There is also the argument that the pulpit/stern lights are better for estimating distance and less likely to get lost in the shore clutter when viewed from the height of a large vessels bridge.

I think I might check with the insurance company then just change the standard lights for IMO approved led units.

 

[Twister_Ken]

An advantage of the tricolour is that it lets you see the wind vane at night.

 

[jb2006]

Good point - I shine a torch onto the little reflectors

 

[TheBoatman]

It also has the advantage only only using one bulb to light the whole lot.

Peter.

 

[Sixpence]

But if the one bulb blows ? you then have no lights

 

[Twister_Ken]

>But if the one bulb blows ? you then have no lights <

Only if you're a silly billy. There should be 'standard' nav lights as well you can switch to if the tricolour goes titzup.

 

[shmoo]

[ QUOTE ]

Bear in mind that as soon as you switch on your engine, you're a motor vessel so need a steaming light as well.


[/ QUOTE ]

Not quite, and the distinction is important. The engine has to be on and in gear.

I say this because we have a tricky bar to negotiate and I, and others I am sure, sometimes negotiate it under sail with the engine idling in neutral. My steaming light/motoring cone is the indication I am in gear, not e.g. cooling water coming out of the stern.

 

[pyrojames]

Bit of a moot point this one. Is a motor vessel, under way but coasting with the engine out of gear, no longer a motor vessel? I would suggest that if you have the engine running, in case your sails are not sufficient for crossing a bar, then for all intensive purposes you should be assumed to be under power. You have taken the position that the sails are not sufficent for your safe navigation, and you are relying on your engine, even if it is not currently in gear. You should have a cone up and openly show that you engine is being used, even if not at that moment, in gear.

 

[shmoo]

pyro, I see what you mean but there has to be a moment of transition from capability and intention to use the engine (i.e. idling in neutral, or indeed simply having a serviceable engine) and actual use. That transition occurs, I suggest, when you put it in gear.

The COLREGS speak of use of the engine, not capability or intention to use it.

[ QUOTE ]

Rule 3
(b) The term "power driven vessel" means any vessel propelled by machinery.

(c) The term "sailing vessel" means any vessel under sail provided that propelling machinery, if fitted, is not being used.


[/ QUOTE ]

(edited to add missed word - one day I will learn to write!)

 

[Guest]

I stand with Schmoo on this one ... not in gear is not a power driven vessel ... it's called prudence !

As to Tricolour - I'm not a supporter of them ...

 

[pyrojames]

Tricolours keep falling off your mast? /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

On and ready to use "in case" seems to me to be very very near to "in use". Your intention is to use it immediately you deem it necessary, how are other navigators to know when you suddenly change from sail to power? I doubt that, in the example sited, someone is going to scramble to the mast and raise the cone before the gear level is slipped in. The situation is clearly a very grey area, your engine is in use as much as it is on and to be engaged for forward propulsion when required, as such I see it as being used to navigate. In effect, despite the sails being your main means of propulsion, the machinery is being used to assist when required, and you are no longer a sailing vessel.

 

[Guest]

I thought ship officers preferred them. The problem of small yachts is that the "lower" lights must point horizontal and so just shine onto the wave faces. They ruin your night vision in lumpy conditions.

The tricolour wobbling around in mid air is far more visible as it is continuous and not interrupted by waves. It also does not blend into the shore lights as it moves far more than the just the parallax effect from the movement of two boats.

However, where there is a lot of light pollution or visibility problems then I will use the highest power lights possible. It is better they see a flash than not see anything. It all depends but having the choice is good.

 

[Topcat47]

I use my tri when offshore, at night. I recently replaced my "bulb" driven one with a (much more expensive) LED version, as I was fed up with the bulbs blowing and subsequent mast climbing (I'm getting too old for that stuff). They're actually brighter than the deck lights now.

I switch from Tri to Deck + Steaming when I start the engine if I'm short handed, otherwise when we actually start using it. It seems prudent to do this. HOWEVER, if I've got Deck & steaming lights on, I behave like a power driven vessel, even if the engine's out of gear. I've never had a complaint, so far.

 

[FAITIRA]

Entering or leaving port with backlights, I would normally use the bow and stern lights, (plus stmg light if the engine is on and in gear), offshore the tri is a good power saver, and more visible.
Engine on but not in gear I am a sailing vessel.

 

[shmoo]

I think of having the engine running, but not in use for propulsion, as simply one of many steps in ensuring the it is ready when I need it. Beginning with having an engine at all, through carrying fuel, having charged batteries up to starting the engine. These are all issues of capability and, in the order I have listed them, strengthening indication of intent.

Certainly the engine can be thought of as "in use" if its merely running, but its not in use for propulsion unless its in gear.

Things don't happen all that quickly on a cruising boat.
Nav. will say to helm, "Can't you make less leeway? We are going to drift in to shallow water".
Helm will say something like "If you can do better, you try"
Nav. will say "Ok, I will put up the cone if you engage the engine and give it 1800"

Really no different from starting the engine, except there a little bit more certainty, fewer steps and and thus paradoxically, more time to put the cone up.

 

[pyrojames]

Rule 3 (c) The term "sailing vessel" means any vessel under sail provided that propelling machinery, if fitted, is not being used.

So this does not specifically say being used for propolsion, but only in use. Still less than clear cut if you ask me.

In practical terms I tend to agree with you. I often run the engine to charge batteries while sailing, and would certainly consider myself not to be a powered vessel, although if wind were light, and I was running it as a back up means of propulsion.....

 

[shmoo]

Perhaps we should leave it at that and let the lights discussion get on without us! Like most COLREGS discussions, it is all bit theoretical, especially since in waters round here use of a cone at all is considered slightly quaint! (not by us, I should add)