National Flag?

G

Guest

Guest
Being an owner of a small english Gaff Cutter I would like to ask if anybody knows how the question of national flags is handled. I am german and the boat lies in Germany, but I would still like to carry the union jack as reference to the origin of the ship (we Germans have also a somehow troubled feeling towards our own national Flag). Is that possible?
And then which british flag is the right one.? Red with union jack, blue with union jack, white with union jack?
 
G

Guest

Guest
the ensign flown on the boat has by law to be the flag of the country of registration of the boat, or if the boat is not registered, it has to be the nationality of the owner.
the ensign flown from the starboard spreader should be the courtesy ensign for the country you are visiting. nobody would bother what you flew here in the uk, but in some countries you can get fined for flying a tatty ensign let alone the wrong one.
if you wanted to reflect the country of manufacture, it would probably be best to put a union jack on the hull somewhere.
the red ensign is the ensign for the merchant marine , the blue ensign is primarily for ships commanded by officers with a reserve commission in the royal navy, and the white ensign is for the royal navy itself.
as with everything else in the uk, there are further complications. the blue ensign is often "defaced" with some insignia for the rather more grand sailing clubs (rather like adding von to your name) and the white ensign is flown by members of the royal yacht squadron.
anyway, whats wrong with the german flag? on my frequebnt past visits top germany, i have always found friendly cultured people living in a country to be proud of.
 
G

Guest

Guest
Well, nothing is wrong with being a german living in Germany. The idea is, that I am member of a museum-sailing-club which has about 20 historic sailing vessels mostly from the Baltic sea reflecting more than 100 years (the "Valdivia", a Newfoundland Shooner was built 1868 - and is participating in this years Americas Cup) of sailing especially in this area. My ship has been built, as small as it is (24'') only as a Pilot Cutter Replik for privat uses. Unfortunatly it has never been used for piloting. But to present it to the many tourists, which visit our habour, as an example for british boat building and as an example for the time, when yachts were built in reference to working boats (before yacht building was a common thing), as well as a sign of respect to Uphams upon Brixham, which wer the builders of my ship, I would like to carry the Union Jack.
As far as I know such a small yacht as mine does not have to be registered at all, or does every vessel in GB have to be registered? Where can I have my ship registered? The only thing official right now is my german insurance.
 
G

Guest

Guest
no - boats in the uk dont have to be registered (or indeed insured or anything else - for the moment)

i dont believe that you could register your boat as british, but for the official rules contact the register of ships and seamen. see the thread on small ships register on this forum for the address.

however, if all you want to do is fly a flag whilst the boat is on display a harbour, just do it. either the union jack or the red ensign from the starboard spreader would be appropriate. breaks a few conventions but so what?
 
G

Guest

Guest
I would have thought that since you want to exhibit your boat as a British craft, the appropriate thing would be to fly a red ensign over the transom, and a German courtesy flag to starboard of the main mast. This would create the impression that she was a British vessel visiting your shores.
 

johnt

New member
Joined
30 May 2001
Messages
206
Visit site
Hi Martin

I have read the other responses and suggest that you discard some of the comments! It is an offence under maritime law to show a false flag!

However, you may have two routes to acheive what you want to do

1/ we have a 'small ships register' this I think would allow you to fly the RED ..and only the red ..ensign..its fairly cheap and has to be renewed every five years, but you might need to be resident (living) in UK.

2/ full registration ..this is equivalant to a 'Flag of convenience' and any vessal can register under it ...but its not cheap!

I think youre best bet would be to contact the RYA at Poole in Dorset, England. they would be able to confirm if you can register under the SSR 'small ships register'
 
G

Guest

Guest
Hello Martin,
Sorry to close another door but you need to be "established" in the UK if you are an EU member wishing to register on the SSR. Established means more than merely resident - you must be contributing to the UK by having a business there.
 
G

Guest

Guest
Martin,
You would not be able to register your boat as a British 'ship'- though you could if you were either British or a German citizen normally residing in the UK.

Two solutions would make sense- either a union flag sticker mounted prominently on the hull which I think would not be identified as a 'flag', or you could use a pilot jack (the Union Flag with a white edging) flown from,say, a yardarm. The Pilot Jack is used to avoid the complication arising out of misuse of the national flag.

You might know that the Union 'Jack' is so called because it is flown on the jackstaff of Royal Navy vessels when at anchor or tied up alongside. The Union Flag is the personal flag of an Admiral of the Fleet, and is also flown when a Court Marshal is being held onboard ship.

If you are only wanting to display the British origins of the boat whilst alongside I'm sure no-one would be offended
should you show the old girl as she used to be- flags and all!

I think the chap who made the rules for flag etiquette must have been a close relative of the chap who thought -up the rules for EU!
Good luck with the boat.

Tom
 
G

Guest

Guest
Hi Martin,
If all you want to do is display the boat in the museum exhibit as near to original as possible then I'm sure there will be no problem in wearing a red ensign in your local area for display purposes. It will have to be a red ensign as priviledged ensigns can only be worn on vessels of 27ft or more length. Contrary to some advice given, the Pilot Jack is reserved for vessels of British Government Agencies such as Queens Harbour Masters, and many priviledged clubs fly undefaced blue ensigns, not just Merchant Navy Officers holding commissions in the Royal Naval Reserve. Another way you could fly a flag with a British emblem is to form an informal 'British Historic Ships Club'. You could then create a club burgee which includes the union flag and wear it from the masthead. You could also consider researching some of the 'house flags' of pilotage companies from the South West of England such as Fowey and Falmouth and dressing your vessel with that as well. Part1 british registration is not the equivalent of a flag of convenience. There are very stringent criteria of elegibility, which is why so many 'British' ships are registered elsewhere.
 
Top