NASA new product

Seajet said:
It doesn't matter how accurately a helmsperson can steer, I for one would want accurate info as an aid to aim for, otherwise there would be increasing slop in the system, like an indifferent person on the helm coupled with worn rudder / tiller / wheel mountings.

I only used an original Clipper system when I was given one in an act of mistaken kindness, it was a disaster with the lot failing at 11 months, different people at NASA telling me it was the masthead or display then their refusing to honour the guarantee !



That was years ago and I understand their warranty set-up is better now, has to be as I imagine it's their busiest department...

I get much better wind direction results with wool telltales on the shrouds and a Windex ( lit by a masthead light when required ); for windspeed I just go by how happy or frightened I am.
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So how accurately can you read a bit of wool?
 
Well amongst the doom merchants and anti-nasa brigade, isn't it time that we actually got behind a UK manufacturer for a change?

I've never had any problem with the wind system or other Nasa products, and their tech staff pick the phone up and talk with you, rather than making it hard.

They are a small UK company in a market dominated by big global corps, so well done Nasa for bringing another affordable product to the cash strapped boater.
 
Joker said:
NASA do some splendid stuff, but they do let themselves down when it comes to presentation. Most of their displays look if they were knocked up by a six year old. They should employ someone who is more skilled in the marketing side of things - as it is, they are spoiling the ship for a ha'penny worth of tar.
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Engineers don't do all that soft sell marketing stuff (hype). All of the kit I have from them works well and their after sales service has been brilliant; perhaps I am asking the right questions.
 
Camelia said:
Engineers don't do all that soft sell marketing stuff (hype). All of the kit I have from them works well and their after sales service has been brilliant; perhaps I am asking the right questions.
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As I wrote earlier, most NASA kit works well and is excellent value, but this thread happens to be about their worst (in my view) product. From yours and other posts in the last couple or so years, their after-sales service is now good. Unfortunately it wasn't eight years or so ago: grudging was the kindest way I can describe it. So good on them for turning it around.

To Comrade Red (post #44) I'd say that I have got behind them, in that I've bought and still use some NASA kit, and I'm sure many others could say the same. But the onus is on them to help themselves: budget kit doesn't have to look cheap, and nor do the handbooks. Any company that relies on patriotism alone has had it (not that I'm saying that's NASA's sole pitch).
 
Times two.
Comrade Red said:
Well amongst the doom merchants and anti-nasa brigade, isn't it time that we actually got behind a UK manufacturer for a change?

I've never had any problem with the wind system or other Nasa products, and their tech staff pick the phone up and talk with you, rather than making it hard.

They are a small UK company in a market dominated by big global corps, so well done Nasa for bringing another affordable product to the cash strapped boater.
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I think that, more significant than whether it is 1 or 3 degree accuracy in what the wind instrument indicates is what effect that has on the other instruments. I judge the performance of my boat and how well the sails are trimmed by what the VMG is showing. After all the objective is to get from A to B in the shortest possible time, even when cruising.
 
macd said:
As I wrote earlier, most NASA kit works well and is excellent value, but this thread happens to be about their worst (in my view) product. From yours and other posts in the last couple or so years, their after-sales service is now good. Unfortunately it wasn't eight years or so ago: grudging was the kindest way I can describe it. So good on them for turning it around.

To Comrade Red (post #44) I'd say that I have got behind them, in that I've bought and still use some NASA kit, and I'm sure many others could say the same. But the onus is on them to help themselves: budget kit doesn't have to look cheap, and nor do the handbooks. Any company that relies on patriotism alone has had it (not that I'm saying that's NASA's sole pitch).
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But designing housings, prototyping, and re-designing requires significant resources- last time I looked at a small aesthetic change in one of my plastic moulded products the re-tooling design and tool production costs exceeded £5k. And it is easy to spend £5k plus plus on handbook copy-writing and design and artwork, before you even get into the printing, lets say about £2-3k. And remember bigCorp has most of the people resource in-house to do this - I very much doubt whether Nasa do, or many companies of their size.

Let's add some numbers up...
- 4 x tool redesigns @£5k = £20k
- Handbook template design £4k
- Copywriter, design, artwork x 20 different products @ £2k (we get some economies doing them all at once) = £40k
- Product photography & graphics (for the manuals) - allow £4k
- Printing 20x manuals @ £2k each = £40k

Total = £108k

Now how many of their products do they need to sell to cover that sort of investment?

Let's say their average transaction is £150, and that their average gross margin is a generous 50%. That means they make £75 gross profit per transaction. Once overhead is taken care of, they end up with 10% net profit, and it is net profit that would get invested (either by saving up, or getting a loan and servicing it).

Therefore each transaction generates £15 of net profit.

So to cover the cost of making everything look flash, they would have to have an extra 7,200 transactions, which would equate to £1.08m turnover - all just to make it look pretty.

Of course the other option is to increase the price.....

Now what option would you choose if you ran NASA?

I would use my in-house skills (which is what they have done, although this is not their strong suit) and produce the guides etc.. on my office copier.


EDIT: Having just looked at their financial figures, I reckon they could do it easily if they bothered to use some of the £1.5m they have in cash at the bank.
 
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I thought 3D printing was suggested as an affordable way to create decent casings ?

In these days of desktop publishing I can't believe one is stuck with a crude manual if making any effort, it doesn't have to be a glossy Rolls Royce brochure with associated costs to look vaguely 21st Century.
 
Seajet said:
I thought 3D printing was suggested as an affordable way to create decent casings ?

In these days of desktop publishing I can't believe one is stuck with a crude manual if making any effort, it doesn't have to be a glossy Rolls Royce brochure with associated costs to look vaguely 21st Century.
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3D printing is expensive and not suited for production runs, nor would the quality of finish be anywhere near acceptable.

And having dtp software does not make a person a copywriter or designer, nor automatically transform brochures.
 
lw395 said:
When racing, we use the apparent wind display as a reference. The difference between 13 and 15 degrees is very very big.
Even cruising, it's nice to be able to tell the new helmsman 'try around 14 degrees apparent'.

OTOH, I'm happy sailing dinghies with just a compass.
It depends what you expect from the thing.
On some boats, I'm happy to just use the windspeed, it's good to have an indication of how windy it's going to feel when you head up from a run to close hauled.
Price vs Benefit and all that.

I can't see much benefit in a device to tell me roughly where the wind is unless I'm below decks.
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You can sail at 14 degrees apparent. I'm impressed!
 
Comrade Red said:
3D printing is expensive and not suited for production runs, nor would the quality of finish be anywhere near acceptable.

And having dtp software does not make a person a copywriter or designer, nor automatically transform brochures.
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I believe it has been suggested on here that 3D printing will give a good quality result, for a mould.

Having software doesn't make anyone anything, but it provides the facility to anyone able to make good use of it.
 
Lazy Kipper said:
You can sail at 14 degrees apparent. I'm impressed!
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Brain fade on my part, sorry, the numbers are wrong but the principle is right.
In light airs, say 5 knots of true wind, a boat like a j120 might be sailing at 25 degrees apparent, and a two degree change would be very significant.
So seeing a 1 degree change before it gets out of hand is very useful.
The boat I sometimes race on, there seems to be an offset I just look for changes!
On the dinghy, we're using a digital compass to (attempt to) track 5 degree shifts.
 
PS - when I said 'presentational skills', I wasn't referring to the manual so much as the display, which on NASA products often looks as tho it were designed by a 6 year old.
 
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