Mylar flap for transom drains

I used to own and race Ospreys and my experience is that they are brilliant sea boats that are pretty stable and not at all tippy. We sailed our mark 2 all over the place and capsized reasonably frequently, particularly when sailing in the open sea in quite marginal conditions. When we capsized the standard drill was get the boat upright, sail off on a reach and open the self bailers and use the bailer to chuck water over the side. With the big bouancy tank at the back we had to move our weight back to bring the nose up and get the boat moving but we never had any big drains running through the aft bouancy tank, the largish self bailers along with the hand bailer meant we would normally be back racing in a few minutes.

Does your boat have a particular problem when you capsize that persuaded you to try the pipes?
 
Toutvabien said:
Does your boat have a particular problem when you capsize that persuaded you to try the pipes?
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I've no reason to expect any problem - but when I bought my Osprey, big ugly holes had been cut in the transom, I presume as supplementary drains.

It might have been nice to seal everything up again, as the boat had been when new - if Mr Proctor believed that was sufficient, I doubt I know better. But I can believe that the chaps who sailed my boat before me, wouldn't have chopped holes in the transom unless they saw a need, so my square drains are just a tidier conclusion to that thought.
 
It would have been faster, and more fun, to do a capsize drill and then proceed armed with the knowledge of whether the boat need transom drains or not...
 
my ospreys both had open transom holes about the same size as yours. The first was a mark 1 with a mark 3 conversion (SN 110 if anyone sees it shout), the second a mark 2.

Neither had a sealed rear tank it was an aft deck only on teh mk 2 and both drained to transom flaps after a major capsize.

The argument at the time was there was enough buoyancy in the side tanks which went all the way to the transom and too much byoancy let the boat float too high on its side and was more likely to turtle.

I used perspex flaps with gaffer tape hinges but bedded in a silicone seal all round. there was a hole drilled and shock cord to retain held over the normal hook inside

what you do is cover the perspex flap in clingfilm. run a large bead of silicone sealant round the flap hole. position the flap over the sealant and leave to dry. remove clingfilm and you have a nice seal for your flap to work against. Use your self bailer most of the time and only let go the transom flaps if your swamped and need to clear it in windier conditions. When that happens you should be able to sail fast enough for the water to fly out through your tubes and clear the water very quickly.

The silicone trick is not my idea but plagiarized off a fireball sailor.
 
It sounds ingenious, and I may well try the method myself. The whole Mylar question only came up because I wanted an effective one-way valve on the stern drains.

I forget if I've mentioned that it has occurred to me to make a pair of four-inch-long ply boxes, just big enough to cover the stainless steel plate surrounds of my self-bailers...

...and attach a soft rubber seal to the open edges of the boxes...so, upturned, they could cover my leaky bailers (and would be elasticated to apply permanent downward pressure) preventing the leaks from flooding the cockpit...until the day when it's windy enough to use the self-bailers, when I'd undo the boxes and lower the chutes to drain the boat.

My stern-drains may be spectacularly good after a capsize, if the forward thrust of the boat (and her bows-up planing angle) help to shift captured water aft...but really, I've always known that I just need to bite the bullet and spend £150 on two new self-bailers. ;)
 
I don't believe they can, Pete - they don't raise and lower cleanly, and in the raised position they are badly bashed out of their flush-fitting alignment.

I could pay over £20 for a service kit for them...is that £20 per bailer I wonder? I think it is...but I doubt that will cure them...or I could just save up and replace them both.

Plus, they're both meant to have robust spring-clips to hold them securely shut, but both springs are missing and they're not sold separately.

In more than a force two, the boat will sail fast enough for the old self-bailers to be effective, left in the down position. It's only in drifters that they leak continuously...

...though I've been told that even brand new self-bailers may leak a bit - so my plywood elasticated 'pot-lids' may prove necessary anyway, if I plan any overnighting on her.
 
Properly fitted and maintained self bailers do not leak.
Keep an eye on eBay, you quite often see bailers going for peanuts, usually taken off a scrapped plywood Ent or similar. Set up a saved search though, otherwise you'll get bored waiting.
 
Thanks Kelpie - although the holes are of course already cut for the 'Super Max' bailers specified for the Osprey - so anything smaller would be a nuisance to fit. I doubt the Enterprise uses the same size.
 
Dan,

I think even well fitting bailers might leak a little, hardly noticeable in normal use but could be a right pain for you.

Also, what if someone kicks a bailer open at night - wet sleeping bags are no fun.

I think you'll need your boxes over your present bailers, how about RWO inspection hatches over the tops to allow access to the bailer handle when required ?

Another possible source for replacements might be the Chandlery Barge at Bursledon, but it would be hard to tell if another bailer wasn't going to be just as leaky, so I'd just work with what you've got.
 
That's exactly what I'm thinking Andy - and I'll save £150. And thereby spend a couple of somewhat frustrating but hopefully ultimately rewarding days constructing the tough little ply boxes. I'll leave a section out of the flooring I'm making, so the bailer-covers will be accessible.

That hatch-sealing rubber, mentioned earlier here, may be just the thing to keep the box-edges tight over the bailer-surrounds.
 
I'm maybe stepping over a line saying this, but Dan I'm a bit concerned that you are contemplating various cruising modifications to a boat which you admit you have barely got sailing in yet- never having gone fast enough for self bailers to work, for example, and never having done a capsize drill.
IMHO cruising modifications are best made to a thoroughly sound conventionally set up boat. You might find you end up doing short day sails far more often than overnight cruises. If that's the case, leaky but operable self bailers plus a roll of tape to seal them for overnights would be much easier than building some new contraption to solve a problem that you may or may not have.

I feel kind of bad saying that, since it's very entertaining to read about your ideas, but I'm speaking as someone who used to while away hours dreaming of epic Wayfarer voyages when all I really needed to do was make the boat simple and easier to use. There is no substitute whatsoever for actually getting the boat out on the water and seeing what needs changed.
 
Thanks Kelpie, I don't mind your point of view at all. If it wasn't so dashed cold, I'd be sailing already rather than planning and dreaming.

I may launch on Monday, so I'll review the serviceability of the bailers then, during a breezy daysail.

The "roll of tape" solution you suggest, is one I tried last year. Top quality duct tape, and plenty of it...but she still leaked! So, whether my possible solutions actually work or not, the need for one is real.
 
If you build a box around the bailer it will be say 35mm high.
That means a lot of water still sloping around inside the hull
you also need to be aware that in a lot of cases the bailer would be open all the time to clear water from spray etc that inevitably comes aboard
 
Daydream believer said:
If you build a box around the bailer it will be say 35mm high. That means a lot of water still sloping around inside the hull
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That's fascinating - I can't begin to imagine what you must have thought I meant!

I'm talking about isolating the self-bailers, which leak, by putting a little upturned box (about four inches long, two inches wide and an inch-and-a-half high) over each bailer.

The bottom, open edges of the boxes would be 'rubberised' so that they would seal against the steel plating of the self-bailer, with elastic (or something) to hold them down.

I'm dying to know what monstrous folly you thought I was planning to construct! Can you explain?
 
This all seems very complex: some of the small sealed deck working boats fit pipe stubs with flat hose clipped outside, long enough to be pulled up with a string if needed. It stays flat so doesn't let water in otherwise.
 
Dan

The silicone/cling film method will not work. I have sailed Fireballs up to World Championship level for 15 years and I've never, ever seen this. Mylar flaps work on the practice of sealing against a perfectly flat surface. Cling film and fingers is not flat.

Stop literally putting gaffer tape plasters over the symptoms and find a cure for the bailers. You need to replace the wire bails or they will NEVER seal. I have never, ever replaced the rubber seals on any dinghy I've owned, if the bailers leak it's because the wire bail is bent or missing, or the chute or flap itself is bent preventing closure. All easily fixed for free with a pair of pliers. I appreciate new bailers are very costly, but there are scrap ones all over the country's boat parks. All you need to do is...

1. Join the Y&Y forum and ask if anyone has a set. Yes it's a racing forum and some of your idea would be met with raised eyebrows however if you just ask for the wire bails someone will almost certainly help you.

2. Join the Dinghies and Dinghy Bits For Sale group on Facebook. Put out a message and you will instantly be asking 2500 community minded dinghy sailors for their assistance.

If you don't get exactly what you need either for free or the price of a pint and postage I would be astonished. The bailers are there in your boat for a reason. Seriously, just fix them!
 
dancrane said:
That's fascinating - I can't begin to imagine what you must have thought I meant!

I'm talking about isolating the self-bailers, which leak, by putting a little upturned box (about four inches long, two inches wide and an inch-and-a-half high) over each bailer.

The bottom, open edges of the boxes would be 'rubberised' so that they would seal against the steel plating of the self-bailer, with elastic (or something) to hold them down.

I'm dying to know what monstrous folly you thought I was planning to construct! Can you explain?
Click to expand...

I am beginning to imagine a very odd looking Osprey Dan, what you are describing is like nothing I have ever seen on any of the numerous dinghies that I have owned and sailed. You seem very determined to develop new ways of dealing with old problems, Darwin would be proud of you.
 
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