MYBA members differences /the italian way of selling boats

[petem]

Agree with all the above but I'm interested to know whether, in the real world, UK buyers of IT boats settle for the de-reg docs instead of requiring the VAT invoice.

 

[Whitelighter]

Agree with all the above but I'm interested to know whether, in the real world, UK buyers of IT boats settle for the de-reg docs instead of requiring the VAT invoice.

I did. Although my boat was French when I bought it, originally she was on the Italian register through leading.

Lombard are also vat invoice obsessed - but if you have a good relationship with them you can work round it.
MCA are equally thick - they operate like it's still 1765 - I had to work very hard to get P1 - apparently the French and Italian registration documents don't prove title - madness.

 

[Tranona]

Agree with all the above but I'm interested to know whether, in the real world, UK buyers of IT boats settle for the de-reg docs instead of requiring the VAT invoice.

Of course. In the "real world" you accept what is the accepted proof. How can you insist on a document that probably does not exist and has no meaning?

 

[Portofino]

As an aside -but related
The Italian reg doc and dereg doc use water line length .

So we show that at visiting marinas 13.1 as opposed to 14.55 M -saves €€€ -they ask to see it .

Also to show more absurdity -the SSR doc has the W/L length so with this or a Part 1 Uk ---- they "Johny Foreigner"

Think it's all official like there own system and conclude VAT paid -crazy .

 

[petem]

Of course. In the "real world" you accept what is the accepted proof. How can you insist on a document that probably does not exist and has no meaning?

You buy another boat instead.

 

[Tranona]

You buy another boat instead.

Why on earth would you do that. Cannot understand your unwillingness to accept that the rest of the EU does things differently from the UK. You will not have any problems with a properly documented boat bought in Italy (at least not with HMRC).

 

[petem]

Why on earth would you do that. Cannot understand your unwillingness to accept that the rest of the EU does things differently from the UK. You will not have any problems with a properly documented boat bought in Italy (at least not with HMRC).

Because the general consensus with UK buyers is that the only proof of VAT that is acceptable is the original invoice. I agree this is absurd but AFAIK it's a fact. I'm trying to ascertain if people are buying boats abroad regardless and ignoring this point.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Why on earth would you do that. Cannot understand your unwillingness to accept that the rest of the EU does things differently from the UK. You will not have any problems with a properly documented boat bought in Italy (at least not with HMRC).

For 2 reasons. As Whitelighter has pointed out, some UK finance companies are wary about mortgaging boats which cannot be proven to be VAT paid and if the buyer thinks he's going to import that boat into the UK and re-sell it at some stage or he thinks that he might sell it in the future to a UK based buyer, then he needs to take that into consideration. The second reason of course is that there are always plenty of fish in the sea. If one boat doesn't have the documentation you need, there's always another that has

My personal experience of buying in Italy is that if you make it abundantly clear that you are not going to buy that boat unless the documentation you request is made available, miraculously it might appear. I bought my last 2 boats in Italy and I wanted to register them under Part 1 UK registry for which I needed a minimum 5 years original title documentation. Initially, I was told that this was impossible but then after I stamped my foot in both cases, the sellers tried a bit harder and the documentation appeared

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Because the general consensus with UK buyers is that the only proof of VAT that is acceptable is the original invoice. I agree this is absurd but AFAIK it's a fact. I'm trying to ascertain if people are buying boats abroad regardless and ignoring this point.

Not to mention the fact that should the UK leave the EU and you are operating a UK flagged boat in the EU afterwards, it will be a lot easier to wave a VAT invoice under the nose of an inquisitive Guardia Finanza official then engage in a conversation about the minutiae of EU VAT law with him. Yes I'm pretty sure this will never happen but you never know what might happen in the future

 

[Cheery]

Of course. In the "real world" you accept what is the accepted proof. How can you insist on a document that probably does not exist and has no meaning?

You buy another boat instead.

Why on earth would you do that. Cannot understand your unwillingness to accept that the rest of the EU does things differently from the UK. You will not have any problems with a properly documented boat bought in Italy (at least not with HMRC).

Because the general consensus with UK buyers is that the only proof of VAT that is acceptable is the original invoice. I agree this is absurd but AFAIK it's a fact. I'm trying to ascertain if people are buying boats abroad regardless and ignoring this point.

When in Rome? (or Nice, San Carles etc.).

 

[meracus]

thanks to all for chiming in
the boat is uk flagged so not a problem there ....... my quibble is with asking for the deposit before the offer is accepted ( i did submit a letter of intent and it wasnt just verbal ) i also did go a visit the boat , why the broker still insist on this is beyond me
EDO if you reading this , you know we are not time wasting ( you did read previous posts :encouragement

 

[MapisM]

As an aside -but related
The Italian reg doc and dereg doc use water line length

Just for the records, that's not correct.
The number you can see on point "Lunghezza" (length) of the so called "Licenza di Navigazione" shows the hull LOA.
Depending on how the boat is built (the most common difference being the swim platform integrated in the hull or overhanging), that is normally lower than the boat LOA
In fact, in your case, the difference is surely explained by the overhanging swim platform, which is not an integral part of the hull and therefore is not considered in the hull LOA.
The WLL of your boat surely would be another meter and a half less, if not more.
But you will never see that number anywhere in the reg papers.

 

[Portofino]

Just for the records, that's not correct.
The number you can see on point "Lunghezza" (length) of the so called "Licenza di Navigazione" shows the hull LOA.
Depending on how the boat is built (the most common difference being the swim platform integrated in the hull or overhanging), that is normally lower than the boat LOA
In fact, in your case, the difference is surely explained by the overhanging swim platform, which is not an integral part of the hull and therefore is not considered in the hull LOA.
The WLL of your boat surely would be another meter and a half less, if not more.
But you will never see that number anywhere in the reg papers.

Yes understood - that what tried to say .
Problem comes not from paying less it comes from this
Enter a busy SoF marina at the end of July @ 4pm ( no one answers the VhF ) .
Tie up on the visitors pontoon outside the Capinanterie -lads -casual strudent labour help tie up .Wife goes into busy office with a file of doc,s - they see the L on the doc, - a lot shorter -wife pays .
So far so good --------- er until lad jumps in rib and gestures follow me - oh dear we end up in channel 13 M wide trying to turn a 14.5 M boat !
Lucky me boat Oppersite is out so we manage to "park "
Next prob bows stick out like a sore thumb lad looks puzzled ,
Anyhow next prob - the bow line runs out of rope so I have to find a carabena ( that you use on a buoy ) and clip this to chain that the lads now dragging up .
Wait gets worse ----- while we are now sipping Rose in the evening sunset , boat Oppersite comes back .So now I,am thinking I lost that space forwards to get out ---now what .
Woke up to find they had gone --phew
I think total L maybe would have prevented this -but they go on what's written .