My sump's the wrong way round!

[Graham_Wright]

I am rebuilding a BMC 1.5 litre diesel and the engineers who performed the sleeving and grinding, recommended a new oil pump. Sound sense I thought .

However, when trying to fit it, I find the connection to the oil strainer is different. Consulting the manual, the sump is shown the other way round!

I can possibly swap the innards of the pump which externally look identical but I can't remember the position of the existing engine sump. Sod's law dictates it is different and the engine bearers won't suit.

Anyone want a refurbished engine?!

 

[scottie]

Perhaps when the engine was marinised the oil pump was altered to allow a steeper shaft angle?
Doesn’t help you current problem though

 

[Graham_Wright]

That's difficult to get my head round! Could be a possibility as otherwise the sump would be shallow at the forward end.
However, I don't know if the engine's previous life was for marine use.
Problem is that if the sump is a different way round than the existing, it might not fit in with the bearers.

With current lockdown, I can't visit the boat to find out.

 

[pvb]

Do you have any photos of the engine in position which might help? Are there any paint marks, scratches, etc, which might indicate which way the sump was mounted before?

 

[drew silverwitch]

Normally the sump has the deep section at the flywheel end (rear) of the sump. In a vehicle you often find a cross member under the front and even here the engine often slopes backward. Is the strainer mounted on a shaped pipe if so it may just need turning where it enters the pump housing

 

[Graham_Wright]

Normally the sump has the deep section at the flywheel end (rear) of the sump. In a vehicle you often find a cross member under the front and even here the engine often slopes backward. Is the strainer mounted on a shaped pipe if so it may just need turning where it enters the pump housing

The sump is not reversible, its profile matches the engine block. The original strainer indeed has a bent pipe to it and, if I can swap the innards of the pump, I can revert to that connection. The new pump body has a quite different connection. But all the drawings and photos I have, show the sump at the flywheel end. The reversed sump I have, looks professionally made and I wonder if one of the mariner companies, Thorneycroft etc, might have produced this variant.

Perhaps Scottie gives a reason for it to help lubrication at the after end which may act like a mini sump for splash lubrication if the engine is steeply inclined.

My worry is that the existing engine has the sump in the conventional position and the bearers are fashioned to accommodate it. But, of course, at the moment I can't visit to check.

I guess the solution in that case would be to swap over the sumps.

Thanks for the inspirations.

 

[graham]

Could it be easier to alter the bearers to suit the new engine?

 

[Graham_Wright]

Could it be easier to alter the bearers to suit the new engine?

Virtually impossible! They are completely and glassed in.

I have browsed a few videos of similar engines and they do seem to have the deep sump at the bow end.

 

[cherod]

can you not use the original pick up pipe

 

[cherod]

Could it be easier to alter the bearers to suit the new engine?

or maybe get another boat without an engine , as you already have one .

 

[DownWest]

I can possibly swap the innards of the pump which externally look identical but I can't remember the position of the existing engine sump. Sod's law dictates it is different and the engine bearers won't suit.

Don't think swopping the internal bits is a good idea, the body wears too and they are probably matched for fit.

 

[Boater Sam]

This rings a bell. I have heard of BMC 1.5Ds with a reversed sump pan, its out of some obscure vehicle, possibly a tractor or the petrol MGB.
Ditch the odd sump and use the normal one with the deep well at the flywheel end. Your oil pump will then fit.
Depending where you are should be able to pick up a old sump easily enough, try Calcutt.
I can't remember if the petrol "B" series engine al a the Cambridge A60 and MGB use the same sump pan but they might. Have a look on line for these engines and it may be that you have a petrol sump already and that is why its the wrong way round.
It could be that you have the MGB sump and oil pump to suit, there are a lot of bastardised engines out there.

 

[Graham_Wright]

This shows the typical marine version. There's a few like that.

It's meaningful that the reversed sump has been quantity produced.

 

[bristoljim]

This shows the typical marine version. There's a few like that.

It's meaningful that the reversed sump has been quantity produced.

Flat type sump on ebay 324127477814 if its any interest - the "ugly" sump ,very deep at the front was I think needed for the BMC J2 van to fit ahead of the front beam axle.
Jim

 

[Boater Sam]

Flat type sump on ebay 324127477814 if its any interest - the "ugly" sump ,very deep at the front was I think needed for the BMC J2 van to fit ahead of the front beam axle.
Jim

That would make sense.
Its difficult to remember where these engines came from. I suspect that the bulk were manufactured by BMC for the marinisers to sell on as they are mostly the same. Thornycroft was a division of BMC for a while.
The other sources were the A55 & A60 Cambridge though few were made, and the J2 van, which was quite popular, Nuffield tractors too, but again small numbers.
The 250 JU I would have thought was too big a vehicle for the 1.5D engine. J4 vans used a different unit.
Lots of water pumps and gen sets were made, this could be a major source of these engines.
Certainly they continued to be built in India, Calcutt 1.5Ds came from there.
None of the Land Rover or taxi vehicles used the 1.5D
Given the huge numbers of these engines, it is odd that very few have been found to use the reversed sump pan.

 

[DownWest]

We had a J3 van with the 1.5D and they were in Morris Marinas along with assorted small vans.