My marine wax does not last as advertised....

peterjaw

peterjaw

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Hi guys,
I treated my boat with Collinite Fleetwax and Gtechniq C2v3 on top of the wax on August, 10.
Since then, I have washed my boat for about 5 ~ 6 times, I did not use brush, mop clothes, or detergent; I use garden hose
, fresh water, and my palms.

I washed my boat yesterday and found that all the beading effect has gone. The water lays on the horizontal surface is just
like a big mirror.

The Collinite Fleetwax claims that it can last for a season and the Gtechniq C2v3 says it can last for 4 ~ 8 months.
I understand the difference between advertisement and the real world, but this is unacceptable.

Does anyone have similar experience? Do you recommend something else for me? Or I did something wrong?
 

I'm thinking that Collinite is not a good primer for your Gtechniq C2v3 coating and therefore it "melts" off with the washing.

The general instruction is to wash the boat and polish the appropriate coarse compoud which is not "wax" (varies with your current gloss), then wipe the microfiber cloth and, for example, Bilt Hamber Cleanser fluid that removes all the grease, etc. This allows the coating to next step.

If your boat is shiny, then leave the polishing off and start wiping the microfiber and clerasin fuild all the old wax out, replace the microfiber cloth as needed often.

S3 is a good one step polishing product (no wax), sheep wool pad and machine rupes bigfoot 21.
Polish compouds, https://www.schollconcepts.com/en/products/premium-rubbing-compounds

https://www.bilthamber.com/cleanser-fluid + microfiber cloth

My faforit seelant, spread sponge one time as thinly as possible. https://www.amazon.co.uk/15oz-Finish-Kare-1000P-Hi-Temp/dp/B002NZL6M6

This is just my idea of ​​your problem.
NBs
 
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Market is flooded with products ,but you are asking what others use that works all season. so here’s my answer .

Dulon
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=j20UFbfYSNQ


It’s what the pros use in the SoF at the Arie d Boom ship yard .Appears a French product .

Specifically the beading lasts .Its a phaff sure but like most things in life “effort in “etc = just rewards .
It take two blokes with a rotary polisher each ,one each side about a whole day inc scaffolding movement or maybe 2 days with a pre 3 M medium cut to do my 14 M boat

https://imgur.com/gallery/m1X3t
 
Thank you very much, guys.

The description of C2v3 says it can be used as base layer or top layer, so I applied the fleetwax first then C2v3. My boat was just
deliveried on August, 8, therefore it is still in brand new "almost" condition, gelcoat is still shinny. I would like to "protect" it up front
instead of "repairing" after be damaged. (Or, at least keep the shine longer.)

I will wash my boat thoroughly and apply C2v3 directly and see how it works.
 
+1 for Dulon.

"Dulon 1&2" was applied to the black hull during this years annual maintenance and the results have been excellent. Rinsing with freshwater after use kept the hull bright and shiny for a full season, with no need to use a brush, cleaning products, etc. Application is a multi-stage process involving cleaning, base preparation and then application of the two part polish, so time consuming and expensive ... it took two people just under two days to apply to a 16m hull … but the results have been remarkable.
 
peterjaw said:
Hi guys,
I treated my boat with Collinite Fleetwax and Gtechniq C2v3 on top of the wax on August, 10.
Since then, I have washed my boat for about 5 ~ 6 times, I did not use brush, mop clothes, or detergent; I use garden hose
, fresh water, and my palms.

I washed my boat yesterday and found that all the beading effect has gone. The water lays on the horizontal surface is just
like a big mirror.

The Collinite Fleetwax claims that it can last for a season and the Gtechniq C2v3 says it can last for 4 ~ 8 months.
I understand the difference between advertisement and the real world, but this is unacceptable.

Does anyone have similar experience? Do you recommend something else for me? Or I did something wrong?
Click to expand...

Peter,

It's easy to get confused with all this.
After 30 years of it, I'm more confused than ever!
So you're not alone, they are many of us still chasing the perfect surface with durability, or simply protecting our surfaces from degradation. Mother nature reminds us who's boss.

Gtechniq should never have said that the C2 could be used as a base or a top layer and is compatible with all products. This is misleading and has caused your error.

On a test we ran a while ago Gtechniq C1 followed by an application of their EXO was the winning combination, that is to say, that the brand is a good one.

I'll try to explain first the difference between the two products (C1 & EXO), and it might help explain what went wrong.

C1:
So C1 has a great name (Crystal Lacquer) this is a base.
Under a microscope a brand new gel coat surface will be rough, it may look and feel smooth, but under the scrutiny it will be rough.
If we could uniform out those highs and lows of roughness and make the surface level, it would be even smoother and provide a better base. UV is inhibited by just this action alone (reflection).
The 'crystalline film' is very hard, certainly much harder than the original gelcoat. So its second benefit is to stop the surface from being marred or lightly scratched through washing techniques.
The third benefit is its resistance to some of the harsher chemicals that might be used to spot clean.
This type of product is known as a 'sealer'.

C2 (the product you have used) is a spray version of the C1. Kind of its younger brother they may say. Weaker, thinner but a sealer.


So you've now created a smoother surface, stopped up all the highs and lows and have a hard, durable surface, now we need that surface to interact with the elements.
This layer will change how water acts on the surface.
I call these products: 'active', but they are known as hydrophobic or beading applications.


EXO:
EXO in my humble opinion is the most durable hydrophobic surface application that I've tested and continue to use. There are others in the Gtechniq family, but they are slightly harder to apply for the DIY and are for indoor application only. With EXO you can get away with it outside, although the ideal application conditions are still in a controlled environment.


Collinite wax (or any good wax) does both jobs at once. Seals the surface and creates a hydrophobic interactive layer in one.
This would have provided a decent base and an interactive layer, for a while.
Unfortunately, it's one thing to have an interacting status on a surface, it's another to have it remain under pressure. The environment and washing chemicals quickly work at removing that status.

To top up, or try to improve on the beading status of the surface you should have used a further 'active' product and not a sealer.
A further active product could have been another coat of wax when the first one failed to bead.

So what do you do now?

Washing alone is unlikely to remove the combination of C2 on top of your Collinite, so I would opt to remove them both with IPA (Isopropanol alcohol) using a decent white microfibre, this should take the gel back very close to a raw/naked condition safely.
It may take a pass or two, and you should change the microfibre often. Wear gloves of course.
There are other methods and chemicals that will guarantee complete removal such as acetone, but I don't advise it unless you are familiar with these types of solvents.

In the tiny pores (highs and lows) as above, you'll have potentially some wax that you've been unable to remove.
Not having a fully raw surface may well affect the new system you apply. The thinking would be the same if you were to paint the surface. Any trace of wax will hinder the bonding of your new base.

So to keep things simple, there is one base and active that won't be troubled by any trapped wax, and that is more of the same wax.



Tony
 
But slightly more seriously, I mainly want a reasonably good finish that still looks good at the end of the season, without too much intervention in-between.
It's an 11m boat with a brown gelcoat roof - I really don't want to be reapplying products mid-season.
To some people, that's a small boat. Standing in front of it out of the water with a tub of 3M paste and a cloth, it's like looking up Everest.
Effort at Easter is acceptable.
 
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Marine Reflections said:
Just squint your eyes FP :D
Click to expand...

Thank you very much, MarineReflections. With your detail explanation I fully understand how those products work.

From your experience, C1 + EXO is the winner, so do I still need wax if I would like to apply C1 (or C2) + EXO?
Do C1 + EXO apply to other material like glass windshield, Acrylic window, stainless parts...?
 
FlowerPower said:
But slightly more seriously, I mainly want a reasonably good finish that still looks good at the end of the season, without too much intervention in-between.
It's an 11m boat with a brown gelcoat roof - I really don't want to be reapplying products mid-season.
To some people, that's a small boat. Standing in front of it out of the water with a tub of 3M paste and a cloth, it's like looking up Everest.
Effort at Easter is acceptable.
Click to expand...

You just spoke out what's in my mind.

My boat is "only" 9 meter long but, it is tiny on water yet huge on land.
 
peterjaw said:
You just spoke out what's in my mind.

My boat is "only" 9 meter long but, it is tiny on water yet huge on land.
Click to expand...

Yep, I always say that when you are on the water you want as big as you can get but come annual cleaning and polish a canoe would be good! :)
 
Marine Reflections is the expert here … he seems to be referring to a new boat though. The GTechniq products sound great but what about a boat where the gelcoat has gone flat in the sunshine already … what should we use before the GTechniq stuff? I've never heard of IPA (thought it was a beer!) … where can I get some? Is there a brand name to look for?
 
Kingfisher 4 said:
Marine Reflections is the expert here … he seems to be referring to a new boat though. The GTechniq products sound great but what about a boat where the gelcoat has gone flat in the sunshine already … what should we use before the GTechniq stuff? I've never heard of IPA (thought it was a beer!) … where can I get some? Is there a brand name to look for?
Click to expand...

Here you are better than IPA, my post#2 https://www.bilthamber.com/cleanser-fluid

IPA can soften some surfaces...

NBs
 
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Kingfisher 4 said:
This one says it's for paintwork … doesn't mention gelcoat which I think is what the discussion is about.
​
Click to expand...

Hi,

Just the same for me, I myself use this because it is the purpose of IPA softening and my expert recommended it to fit really well to clean the gelgoat. I've been using it for years and very satisfied.

If you believe IPA is the best, you can buy isopropanol (IPA) technical shop and dilute it 50-60% ipa/water yourself so you have IPA, where can you find a written mention of gelgoat?

"cleanser-fluid is a pure chemical cleaner that removes hydrocarbon road films, oil based matter, silicones and old waxes that reduce the clarity of automotive finishes and reduce the longevity of LSP (last stage products) such as waxes and sealants. cleanser-fluid’s unique action primes the paint surface to increase wax and sealant adhesion.
cleanser-fluid will also release and clean polish residue in a safer and more effective manner than isopropyl alcohol dilutions.

Product Function
How to Use
Thoroughly wash vehicle with hot soapy water, only use salt-free automotive shampoos. Do not use wash and wax products. Dry vehicle using chamois leather, or synthetic equivalent.
cleanser-fluid must be applied liberally to panel using the pump spray, sufficient should be applied to thoroughly wet the surface, only use on cool surfaces. Alternatively wet a micro-fibre cloth then spread the fluid across the surface. While the panel is still wet use a clean micro-fibre to remove the fluid and suspended contamination and to dry the panel. The method should absorb the oil based contamination away from the paint finish.
The freshly cleansed panel should be sealed with wax or sealant straight away.
cleanser-fluid should be used in a well-ventilated environment, nitrile should preferably be worn and sources of ignition should be avoided."

And

Cleanser-fluid is a pure chemical Cleaner that removes hydrocarbon road Films, oil-based matter, silicones and old waxes that reduce the clarity of automotive finishes and reduce the longevity of LSP (last stage products) such as waxes and sealants. Cleanser-fluid's unique action primes the surface to increase wax and sealant adhesion. Cleanser-fluid will also release and clean polish residues in a Safer and more effective manner than isopropyl alcohol dilutions. Product Function How to Use Thoroughly Wash the vehicle with hot soapy water, use only salt-free Automotive shampoos. Do not use Wash and wax products. Dry vehicle using chamois leather, or synthetic equivalent. The cleanser fluid must be applied to the pump using the pump spray, sufficient to be thoroughly wet on the surface, only on cool surfaces. Alternatively, wet the micro-fiber cloth and spread the fluid across the surface. While the panel is still wet, use a clean micro-fiber to remove the liquid and suspended contamination and to dry the panel. The method should absorb the oil-based contamination from the paint finish. The freshly cleansed panel should be sealed with wax or sealant straight away. Cleanser-fluid should be used in a well-ventilated environment, Nitrile should preferably be worn and sources of ignition should be avoided.

But I'm willing to pay more vigorous price products, lampd pads and polishing machine,(rupes 21 mark 2) and do the work itself and I get what I want, I bought it in the past and I have not been satisfied. It is a small money vs my NT value and a full season budget.

NBs
 
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peterjaw said:
Thank you very much, MarineReflections. With your detail explanation I fully understand how those products work.

From your experience, C1 + EXO is the winner, so do I still need wax if I would like to apply C1 (or C2) + EXO?
Do C1 + EXO apply to other material like glass windshield, Acrylic window, stainless parts...?
Click to expand...

If you go down the C1 & EXO route, you won't be needing any wax.
If you go down the wax path, don't further apply anything other than the same wax.

I would opt to use specific products for the other surfaces.
 
IPA is quite safe on the gel coat, in fact, I only mentioned it due to how safe it would be for the OP and his new gel coat during this correction.

The cleansing fluid from Bilt Hamber is a good suggestion and a great product.

There are hundreds of very similar products to prep an automotive surface before the final finish, the task at hand here though is to remove a recently applied coating of Collinite wax that has been topped with Gtechniq C2 and not road traffic film etc, although that is not to mock a cleansers ability, it's awesome stuff, but in the right application.

This is an error correction that is required and not a pre-application cleanse. Also, the differences between clearcoat and gel coat are vast.
Let's not get hung up on IPA versus a cleansing solution.

I'm sure the OP has got the general idea that the purpose here is to get the gel coat raw before applying a further product that requires a bond.

Tony
 
FlowerPower said:
But slightly more seriously, I mainly want a reasonably good finish that still looks good at the end of the season, without too much intervention in-between.
It's an 11m boat with a brown gelcoat roof - I really don't want to be reapplying products mid-season.
To some people, that's a small boat. Standing in front of it out of the water with a tub of 3M paste and a cloth, it's like looking up Everest.
Effort at Easter is acceptable.
Click to expand...

I feel we all want the same thing.

I've worked hard to try and find the solution and make the workload easier.

There are things to make the work easier, but they are multiple stages and require a good deal of effort and understanding in order for those results to materialise.

Edit:
I'm always happy to help anyone who's looking to learn or struggling with stages. It's one of the best things about contributing.
 
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