Musto Sailing gear problems

Chris_Robb

Chris_Robb

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I have just returned all my gear to Mustos as I get very wet in heavy rain.

One jacket and trousers are MPX performance - a Goretex fabric, and the other jacket, much cheaper - performance Breathable (apparnetly not Goretex) which another crew remained dry in. Both 3 years old and not used heavily.

They tested them all, and the Trousers will be replaced free of charge (- I wondered why my bum got so wet!) The Non Goretex has some damage round the lower hem area and leaked like a sive through the damage point, but not at all anywhere else, and the Goretex jacket- which was left me soaking after 1 hour in pouring rain. This is their description of the fault from their email:

"We have tested your jacket & have found that the garment is holding water which means the DWR finish on the garment has deteriorated. We will re-proof the jacket for you as a gesture of goodwill but this action should be carried out as part of the regular care & maintenance of any of our technical garments."

Neither of these jackets have been used heavily, and I am surprised that they have been unsatisfactory so soon in their lives. I have other conventional Mustos on board aged about 10 years which are excellent.

An interesting antedote: I went for a walk last weekend for 2 hours in pouring rain wearing a Barbour jacket of 20 years vintage -I was perfectly dry at the end.

Barbour 1
Musto - Nil Point

What is a DWR and what maintenance are you meant to do? I rinse mine 2 or 3 times a year in fresh water only.

I must say that I am just a tad disappointed in the product, especially as they are not cheap, and will be testing the reproofed jacket under the garden hose when received back!
 
Chris_Robb said:
I have just returned all my gear to Mustos as I get very wet in heavy rain.

One jacket and trousers are MPX performance - a Goretex fabric, and the other jacket, much cheaper - performance Breathable (apparnetly not Goretex) which another crew remained dry in. Both 3 years old and not used heavily.

They tested them all, and the Trousers will be replaced free of charge (- I wondered why my bum got so wet!) The Non Goretex has some damage round the lower hem area and leaked like a sive through the damage point, but not at all anywhere else, and the Goretex jacket- which was left me soaking after 1 hour in pouring rain. This is their description of the fault from their email:

"We have tested your jacket & have found that the garment is holding water which means the DWR finish on the garment has deteriorated. We will re-proof the jacket for you as a gesture of goodwill but this action should be carried out as part of the regular care & maintenance of any of our technical garments."

Neither of these jackets have been used heavily, and I am surprised that they have been unsatisfactory so soon in their lives. I have other conventional Mustos on board aged about 10 years which are excellent.

An interesting antedote: I went for a walk last weekend for 2 hours in pouring rain wearing a Barbour jacket of 20 years vintage -I was perfectly dry at the end.

Barbour 1
Musto - Nil Point

What is a DWR and what maintenance are you meant to do? I rinse mine 2 or 3 times a year in fresh water only.

I must say that I am just a tad disappointed in the product, especially as they are not cheap, and will be testing the reproofed jacket under the garden hose when received back!
Click to expand...

mine leaked as well this summer i have now re-proofed with a Graingers product sold in the swindlery. not yet got them wet since
 
You need to wash and re-proof with a proper product.

I've had good success with washing and reproofing oilskins using NIKWAX products in the washing-machine, which are specially designed for Gore-Tex and other breathable fabrics:

Nikwax 'TECH WASH' cleans dirt and salt-water out of the oilies (avoid using normal washing liquid/powder as it clogs the breathable fabric), then run a new cycle using Nikwax 'TX.DIRECT' WASH-IN to reproof. For temperature settings, follow the care-label instructions - I do mine at 40 degrees. Then hang to dry naturally, although some are apparently okay if you do a low-heat dryer cycle.

My 8-year old second-hand Gore-Tex Mustos come up a treat, washing two or three times a year depending on how much they get used, and reproofing every winter. (Having said that, after last weekend's storms when the more heavily used trousers felt 'damp' after repeated downpours, I've decided to re-proof them after each wash.)

All camping and outdoor shops stock it (avoid chandlers) or a google search will come up with loads of results, eg:
www.simplyhike.co.uk/manufacturers/Nikwa...nLj54CFU0A4wodgBSCpA

I bought 1 litre of the wash stuff and 300ml of the wash-in reproofer (as I wash more frequently than I reproof, including our walking jackets).
 
Babylon said:
I've had good success with washing and reproofing oilskins using NIKWAX products in the washing-machine, which are specially designed for Gore-Tex and other breathable fabrics:

Nikwax 'TECH WASH' cleans dirt and salt-water out of the oilies (avoid using normal washing liquid/powder as it clogs the breathable fabric), then run a new cycle using Nikwax 'TX.DIRECT' WASH-IN to reproof. For temperature settings, follow the care-label instructions - I do mine at 40 degrees. Then hang to dry naturally, although some are apparently okay if you do a low-heat dryer cycle.

My 8-year old second-hand Gore-Tex Mustos come up a treat, washing two or three times a year depending on how much they get used, and reproofing every winter. (Having said that, after last weekend's storms when the more heavily used trousers felt 'damp' after repeated downpours, I've decided to re-proof them after each wash.)

All camping and outdoor shops stock it (avoid chandlers) or a google search will come up with loads of results, eg:
www.simplyhike.co.uk/manufacturers/Nikwa...nLj54CFU0A4wodgBSCpA

I bought 1 litre of the wash stuff and 300ml of the wash-in reproofer (as I wash more frequently than I reproof, including our walking jackets).
Click to expand...

Blimey! The old non breathables are a lot less trouble! and at least I keep dry - if not a bit sweaty!
 
bad

Musto have been taken over not so long ago - Nigel Musto now holds a minority share.

Maybe things are slipping. Taken over by big money boys - makes me think of city slickers.

Goretex is a coating and should be within the coat. Often sandwiched between layers of other material to stop abrasion (goretex is like PTFE tape - thin and easily damaged)

Sure the outer layer should dispel water, but even if it gets past, the goretex should stop it, and you stay dry but have a heavy coat owing to weight of water in outer layer.

Goretex is great if done right, but new technology is surpassing it.
 
Gore tex is not a coating, it's a membrane. On a three layer fabric (most gore-tex oilskins are made of three layer fabrics), it's the middle layer.

It works by the difference between the damp air inside the garment, and the relatively dry-er air outside. However, if the outer layer of the garment is saturated, then the difference in humidity across the membrane isn't there, and it doesn't work. Hence the sweat doesn't get through, and your bum gets damp.
 
Hey I thought was just my "waterproof" gear that was c^&p, regardless of the manufacturer. It would seem that all the hype and expensive marketing for high tech gear is just way to pull the wool (or Goretex) over our eyes. Waterproof and breathable my ar£$ !!

Last weekend, nice day but freezing - I ended up soaking in condensation!
When it's raining I get soaked with rain.
When it's raining and freezing - I get soaked with rain and condensation!
The hood is so big and floppy it cover my whole face (some say a good thing), just when I don't want it to. Solution - put a cap on to keep the hood where it's meant to be - on my head. The only thing is that makes my head sweat!!

I reckon that sailing gear is more of a fashion item than a functional bit of high tech clothing. Maybe time to get the oilies back out again.
 
Keen_Ed said:
Gore tex is not a coating, it's a membrane. On a three layer fabric (most gore-tex oilskins are made of three layer fabrics), it's the middle layer.

It works by the difference between the damp air inside the garment, and the relatively dry-er air outside. However, if the outer layer of the garment is saturated, then the difference in humidity across the membrane isn't there, and it doesn't work. Hence the sweat doesn't get through, and your bum gets damp.
Click to expand...

OK - so they are reproofing my goretex jacket and replacing the trousers. I think I understand now. The other non goretex jacket then is just a fabric with a waterprrof membrane I suppose. This was news to me as I was sold it as a Goretex type!!! At least this one worked!
 
I think the problem arose when the term "technical" was applied to waterproof clothing. Perhaps the manufacturers (not just Musto) should explain that "technical" refers to how hard it is for you to keep it waterproof.

I have a 20+ year old Musto Inshore jacket of heavy duty nylon and nylon lined. It does not leak and has never been reproofed.
 
asteven221 said:
Hey I thought was just my "waterproof" gear that was c^&p, regardless of the manufacturer. It would seem that all the hype and expensive marketing for high tech gear is just way to pull the wool (or Goretex) over our eyes. Waterproof and breathable my ar£$ !!

Last weekend, nice day but freezing - I ended up soaking in condensation!
When it's raining I get soaked with rain.
When it's raining and freezing - I get soaked with rain and condensation!
The hood is so big and floppy it cover my whole face (some say a good thing), just when I don't want it to. Solution - put a cap on to keep the hood where it's meant to be - on my head. The only thing is that makes my head sweat!!

I reckon that sailing gear is more of a fashion item than a functional bit of high tech clothing. Maybe time to get the oilies back out again.
Click to expand...


I have a traditional set of Mustos which are now 10 years old and are WATERPROOF as well as the Goretex joby.

I have learnt something out of this: That you have to wash and waterproof them twice a year - what a bloody palava!

So what do people do if they are crossing the atlantic - mine have hardly been worn in relation to that type of use. You can't reproof them on the way can you!
 
Goretex and breathable

I have an original set of non-breathable Mustos. They require no washing other than to remove the salt from the collar. They are offshore grade and maybe sixteen years old. They are still fully waterproof. But they aren't much good for active sailing and not very warm at night.

I had some breathable Mustos which are a coating (not a membrane) and they were great but after two or three years they start to lose their waterproofness. Very warm and comfortable though.

Now I have all goretex Mustos including an Offshore and an Inshore Race jacket. This latter is brilliant for most uses (though the zip is a bit flimsy) and has kept me warm and dry on Channel crossings in September. And it isn't at all bulky so good when running around and stuffing your head through lifelines. The instructions say to wash with non-bio at 40 and tumble on cool. It seems to work so far.

I accept that my breathable stuff won't last anything like as long but it is just nicer, warmer and less sweaty.
 
Keen_Ed said:
It works by the difference between the damp air inside the garment, and the relatively dry-er air outside. However, if the outer layer of the garment is saturated, then the difference in humidity across the membrane isn't there, and it doesn't work.
Click to expand...

I don't think that the manufacturers do a very good job of conveying that this is how breathable membranes work. If you sit in a puddle you'll get a wet bum. You'd be drier if you wore traditional oilies. If you leap around the deck on a warm wet day then Goretex will win hands down.
 
i got some musto gear bought about 15 years ago £185 jacket and nearly same for chest high trousersalthogh about a year before really got a soaking they never kept me dry from the start but i washed them with some stuff from a camping shop about 6 years ago and they kept me dry for about 4 years. Work that out !
 
My old XM gear which I've had for atleast 10 years minimum never gets any form of treatment, the red has faded a bit in parts but never lets a drop of water in.

Sometimes simple is best I would guess.
 
Usually when people complain of gortex leaking, it's not actually leaking, it just waterlogged, and clings and feels wet and cold. Many gortex clothes can be reinvigorated by washing and tumble drying. I have a gortex mountain jacket that has been around the world, on the boat, stuffed in a rucksac and taken to work everyday, and is many many years old. Still going strong. When is stops beading, it gets washed and tumble dried. It doesn't have any plastic bits to melt though.

This article is pretty good
http://www.rei.com/expertadvice/articles/rainwear+dwr.html
 
I heard a scientist on radio 4 a couple of years ago. He said that tumble drying was the most important part of the cleaning process. I remember this as I had posted a thread on here the day before, asking if I should tumble dry my sailing gear after washing it. He said it was something to do with taking the surface structure back to how it was when it was first made. He also said it should be as hot as you can but I chickened out of that part!
Allan
 
yep, rinsing or washing is no good. It needs heat. So you either need to tumble dry, or iron every single cm of the fabric, which won't be easy, so tumble dry is much better.

Not true for all breathable clothes, as some have plastic bits stuck on, so you can't hot tumble dry, but can often medium heat tumble dry.

I've never had to chemically proof any of my gortex gear, I wash and heat treat.

If the membrane and surface and seams are working properly , then you can sit in puddles, and won't get wet. Only water vapour passes through, not liquid.

These questions arise on here quite often, and there is a large proportion of people who don't realise how these technologies work.

For anyone information seeking. Membranes like goretex are the best, as there is an actual waterproof, breathable membrane in the fabric. They can only leak if the membrane is punctured, or the seams are not waterproof, or water gets in through neck, wrists, etc. These materials won't work if the outer material is waterlogged, as water vapour cannot get through, so the outer material needs to 'bead' water off. This can be done by heat treating such as tumble drying, or using a chemical but breathable treatment (it needs to be breathable, not just waterproof, or the membrane stops working)

Non-membrane breathable fabrics use treatments of the fabrics to achieve the same effect. Works ok on garments that are treated well, or not used often. However the effect wears off eventually, unlike the membrane fabrics, and sitting in puddles will gain you a wet bum!
 
Bet you cant guess what foulies I wear at sea ?

Fluorescent high visability yellow builders/land workers lined jackets & trousers.
Fully lined, waterproof zips and valcro seams. You cant beat them. Often/ Usually ex Government surplus available at £25 a set. Compare that with the 4 or 5 hundred quid or more the weekend sucker yachties pay for similar clothing because it has got a makers name on it ?. Serves just as well as the stuff suckers buy at xxx £££.

When will the weekend sailors realise what fools they are ?
 
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