Multiple boat crashes in Hamble

[vandy]

All too common on the hamble

Freddy if you ever watch South Coast of France's marinas hitting boats etc. is too common - where I used to live even introduced a park and go scheme where boat owners had to just Moore their boat on a easy to moore pontoon and marina staff used to take their boat to the berth's pontoon!!!!

 

[Searush]

If the boat is berthed bow in & reversing out may be difficult in an unfamiliar boat, I would have warped it out & round. I have done this with SR in tight spots because turning a twin keel yacht with a single engine needs room, even when you turn with the prop & use prop wash, but with a couple of warps she will easily turn in her own length. Even using a spring, a fender & the engine can be a big help.

 

[volvopaul]

Sounds like an average weekend in cowes, it's always great fun on a Sunday morning watching the corporate boats leaving, shouting, screaming skippers.

 

[rwoofer]

As a general rule I would not encourage speed, but there are some situations where speed is an absolute necessity if you want to get in/out cleanly. For some reason I've needed it more in the med with no tides, but that is because you are sometimes given crazy berths in strong winds that you would ordinarly not even attempt (Croatia comes top of mind).

Like everything you have to know your boat and how it behaves before you try any high speed tricks, but you will find that some boats turn best with a bit of way on.

Just made me realise that I have actually never driven a boat with a bowthruster, so maybe that is why I put more effort into finding the right speed for some good turning ability.

 

[bedouin]

Oh yeah i agree you need revs on a yacht to open the prop and get a burst of prop wash. But you absolutely and most definately dont need boat speed.

On some boats you certainly do - without a flow of water over the rudder you have no steerage at all (okay you can kick the stern one way with prop wash) particularly in reverse

 

[Elessar]

On some boats you certainly do - without a flow of water over the rudder you have no steerage at all (okay you can kick the stern one way with prop wash) particularly in reverse

Absolutely disagree. Using speed for steerage is a fools errand. Control the boat with bursts of forward to get wash over the rudder. You change the heading that like that without getting way on.
Twin rudder boats are tricky, which is why many southerlys have bow and stern thrusters.

Its interesting teaching a yachtie to use a mobo, I sometimes do coversion courses. Many use way as the only tool in their armoury. My boat needs to be doing 10 knots for the rudders to be of any real use, so they get faster and twirl the wheel manically. And pointlessly.

Watch a skilled yachtie though, and he will place his yacht inch perfectly. And slowly. With short bursts of power.

 

[bedouin]

Absolutely disagree. Using speed for steerage is a fools errand. Control the boat with bursts of forward to get wash over the rudder. You change the heading that like that without getting way on.

And what if the propellor is no where near the rudder?

You can't beat the physics - there is simply no way in my boat to apply a turning moment without water flowing over the rudder

Okay if you have an outboard, or stern drive where you can direct the thrust directly - or have a set up where the rudder is immediately behind the prop but not all sailing boats are like that.

 

[tom52]

It is just because of the distance between prop and rudder that there is no prop wash or prop walk of any significance on a saildrive yacht.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

As a general rule I would not encourage speed, but there are some situations where speed is an absolute necessity if you want to get in/out cleanly. For some reason I've needed it more in the med with no tides, but that is because you are sometimes given crazy berths in strong winds that you would ordinarly not even attempt (Croatia comes top of mind).

Mmm not sure thats fair on Croatia! We've spent 4 seasons in Croatia until recently and I don't particularly recall been given berths that are difficult to get into because of wind although of course like anywhere in the Med, reversing into a stern to berth with a stiff cross wind is sometimes a buttock clenching moment

 

[Talulah]

Is this a good time to mention Bow Thrusters?
Two sayings often used in instructing:
As slow as you can. As fast as you must.
Never be in a hurry to have an accident.

As an instructor I sometimes cringe when I see how other instructors are teaching.
Part of this is because many instructors don't have their own boats and so haven't really had the experience boat ownership brings. Another part of the problem is that instructors rarely get to sail with experienced people to see other ways of doing things. They only know 'their way'.
I have seen one instructor on more than one occasion teach the clients to reverse in to the marina at full speed swinging the wheel as necessary and then full throttle forwards to stop the boat just in time. I feel like setting up a camera for the one occasion it all goes wrong.
All to often people think the boat has to be moving forward for the boat to turn instead of waiting for the wind to blow the bows around. I certainly would not want a berth in some of the marinas where training/charter boats were nearby but they have to go somewhere and Skippers have to learn somewhere.
I used to be a beginner once myself and sometimes it's difficult to remember what that was like.

 

[beejay190]

waiting for the wind to blow the bows around. .

This is the way I do it. It took me some time to get a feel for it and I dont always get it right. But when I do ( get it right ) it is so satisfying

 

[Resolution]

i am based on c pontoon mercury been hit three times this year loads happen midweek when we are not at marina schools come in doing pontoon bashing teaching the students on board.
Cant beleive marina staff let it happen most are not even berthed in the marina normally 4 students on board all going to have a go at berthing tough luck if your boats next to the berth they are practicing on.

One came in the other sunday afternoon tide starting to run, landed on my neighbers maxi, skipper was no better than his students.dont give a s----t attitude
create havoc then p--s off with us to sort the damage.
All too common on the hamble

Sadly this has been the case for several years, maybe because the slightly diagonal ebb tide makes berthing quite a challenge. On the plus side, it does provide some viewing if lunching there mid week .

 

[Resolution]

Nope if you cant hold the boat dead still in the marina in the strong ebb, I wouldn't sign you off as competent to take a boat share boat. If you can hold it still you can creep along dead slow.

Surely this depends on your boat length and the width of the fairway in the marina? How would you take a relatively large single screw boat cross tide along a fairway, before reaching the point to turn into the actual berth?

 

[Elessar]

Surely this depends on your boat length and the width of the fairway in the marina? How would you take a relatively large single screw boat cross tide along a fairway, before reaching the point to turn into the actual berth?

I would have to show you. If it's running very hard you don't have to turn at all because you will be pointing almost directly up or down river.

 

[Searush]

Surely this depends on your boat length and the width of the fairway in the marina? How would you take a relatively large single screw boat cross tide along a fairway, before reaching the point to turn into the actual berth?

You set up heading directly into the tide with enough throttle to hold your position. Then turn slightly towards the direction you wish to go & adjust throttle & steering so that while pointing diagonally across the fairway, you actually move up the middle. It's called a ferry glide, google it. You can adjust the angle & throttle speed to increase your speed along the fairway, but I always believe the slower the better as long as you have control.

Clearly, any wind will add another dimension, but with practice you should be able to balance the forces acting on the boat with the rudder & throttle. I freely admit that it is probably easier with a nice pair of cast iron keels in the water than a flat planing hull, but flat bottomed ferry boats do it all the time, all over the world.

 

[Resolution]

Searush
Thanks, I am well familiar with the satisfaction of a well-executed ferry glide. My question, and my query about speed was aimed at how to manoeuvre when your boat length is close to or as long as the width of the fairway. In Port Hamble, this is often the case. Take a look at Google Earth and you will see the actual dimensions. Fine for smaller boats, but what do you do if you are one of the larger boats?

 

[Elessar]

Searush
Thanks, I am well familiar with the satisfaction of a well-executed ferry glide. My question, and my query about speed was aimed at how to manoeuvre when your boat length is close to or as long as the width of the fairway. In Port Hamble, this is often the case. Take a look at Google Earth and you will see the actual dimensions. Fine for smaller boats, but what do you do if you are one of the larger boats?

Ferry glide. Sometimes it is tight enough to have to creep forward and back to go round boats anchors, davits or whatever. If the boat is longer than the smallest gap you have to go elsewhere or wait for slack. Speed is not the answer in my view. If you can't hold station in the marina, and be able to turn and retreat, you are an accident waiting to happen.

 

[Whitelighter]

I have regularly taken a 44ft dufour and Fairline squadron in and out if PH and if the rides running I ferry glide both.

 

[Elessar]

I have regularly taken a 44ft dufour and Fairline squadron in and out if PH and if the rides running I ferry glide both.

Yeah me too with the squadron. Fits easily enough. About 8 feet to spare at the narrowest bit i reckon?

 

[Whitelighter]

Yeah about that I think.

Slightly less with the big dufour.