MRCCs - Please give positions relative to fixed point and lat/long

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Would MRCCs PLEASE give positions relative to a fixed point as well as the full lat/long. The sea is a big place and to be given four multi-digit numbers (one at each corner of a box) takes ages and takes time to plot on a chart. Furthermore, many yachts now use plotters and I'd bet that the majority don't know how to enter the position of a distressed vessel and lay off a course to it, AND don't keep any sort of effective paper chart system running in parallel.

But it could all be made so much easier if the MRCC would state the approximate location as a bearing. e.g. "The submerged container is at a position approximately 5nm bearing 180 from the Lizard, xxxxxxxN yyyyyyyyW, etc."

This way, you can determine if the message is of any significance to you and if so, take steps to record the lat and long, and plot it off. Personally I keep paper charts running in parallel with the plotter but it is a real pain to have to keep writing down multi-digit numbers that relate to a happening fifty miles away from me!

The human brain can handle "5nm 180 degrees" much more easily than a couple of dozen numbers that might be difficult to hear when there is noise.
 
Totally agree too, and I am sure the MCA might take your point on board. "Pordon the pun"
Though when I hear any such warning I tend to do a quick reckoning in my head and decide if I am well away or withen a concernable distance from the hazard.
 
I think that there needs to be a directive at an international level...it is the same problem the world over. Presumably there are proscribed formats for the MRCCs to use. We need to get the format changed, not just the UK.
 
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.......... We need to get the format changed, not just the UK.

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Better get writing to a few people then old chap. Nobody in authority is going to take any notice of stuff on the forum!
 
I live on the boat in Spain. I'm not going to get anywhere writing to UK people from an address in Spain and since I don't have a permanent home in the UK I don't qualify for a vote, and don't have an MP. I pay UK taxes, though /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Anyway, if people think it's a good idea then maybe they can take it up with an authority; it needs someone with connections in an organisation to get it moving.

It would save lives, and it would cost nothing. That ought to be a good enough reason.
 
Voting Rights for Brits aboard

I think you may be under a misapprehansion

Here's the facts as set out on http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/BritonsLivingAbroad/BeforeYouGo/DG_4000022



Voting for Britons living abroad or returning to the UK

You keep the right to vote in general and European Union elections for up to fifteen years after moving abroad, but you can't vote in UK local government elections. Remember to register yourself if you return to live in the UK so you don't miss the chance to vote.
Register as an overseas voter

To do this you will need to:

* already be registered to vote in the UK
* contact the electoral registration office at the local council where you were last registered to vote, and the forms will be sent to you - this also applies if you are only abroad temporarily on polling day: you should inform the registration officer of the date you are returning to the UK

Not registered in the UK

If you are not registered to vote in the UK, you can't vote from abroad, unless you left the UK before you were 18 and your parents/legal guardians were registered to vote in the UK. As long as you left the UK within the last 15 years, you can register with the local council where your parents/legal guardians were last registered.

All overseas voters can vote by post or by proxy. A proxy vote is where you nominate someone else to vote in person on your behalf. This can be arranged at the time of registration. Postal votes are sent out around one week before polling day, so if it would be difficult to receive and return your vote within one week, arrange for a proxy vote.
 
Re: Voting Rights for Brits aboard

Thanks for that, it would be nice to vote. The information is rather unclear as it says you have to be a) already registered and b) contact the officer. We moved some years ago so we will no longer be on the electoral register at the old address so we don't meet requirement "already registered" - or have I misunderstood it, it isn't terribly explicit.
 
I've emailed the MCA with the URL of this thread requesting a response.

I don't think it would have to be ratified internationally, as it could be something tagged onto the end of a message, as a "this position is ***degrees ***miles from (a prominent place)".

You never know, some-one may reply, as it never hurts to come up with a safety suggestion.
 
Good idea.

After a lifetime as a pro nav - and several lifetimes teaching it - I agree wholeheartedly.

The first reference should relate approximately, in 'Polar co-ordinates', to a well-known point of reference just as you suggest. Most listeners can readily relate to that in their 'mental map of position' and determine if likely to be relevant to them. Then, giving the detailed 'Rectangular co-ordinates' of position will allow those who consider themselves nearby to have grabbed a pencil and a notepad.....

Spot on!

/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
Yes, a good idea. I had a different idea when on a X-channel crossing with Zefender a few years ago, when on watch with his brother Paddywackcocker. Radio went off, but charts down in cabin. A preprinted waterproof bit of paper, or small (A5) white board, or preferably something pocket sized, with the lat/long grid of the area you are in. Then simple to see if the lat/long is anywhere near where you are. Doesn't have to have a chart of any sort on it if you roughly know your own rough position.

Pretty easy to implement for yourself, even if your suggestion is not taken up
 
Is this not another example of the reliance of "us" on electronics, rather than the basic skills of navigation?, I don,t have a "plotter" and could tell you immediately if the position given was of any interest to us in our position, wether it was a hazard/wether we could help. But agree, if one feels strongly, this will be an ineffective way to make a change i,m afraid.
 
NOTAMs, the aeronautical equivalent of NTMs, do things a bit better.
Here's one active at the moment which has placenames as well as lat/long. From reading it I know that if I'm pootling about North Wales I won't be anywhere near it from the placenames, so don't have to start plotting the grid ref.

E)KITE FLYING. ACTIVITY WI 2NM RADIUS 5242N 00231W (WREKIN COLLEGE,
WELLINGTON, NEAR TELFORD,SHROPSHIRE).
 
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I live on the boat in Spain. I'm not going to get anywhere writing to UK people from an address in Spain and since I don't have a permanent home in the UK I don't qualify for a vote, and don't have an MP. I pay UK taxes, though /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Anyway, if people think it's a good idea then maybe they can take it up with an authority; it needs someone with connections in an organisation to get it moving.

It would save lives, and it would cost nothing. That ought to be a good enough reason.

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If your boat is on the UK Register of Ships then I don't understand why you think not having a permanent home, etc in UK is a problem for your writing to the MCA. After all the UK register is administered by the MCA and administers the regulations, etc for the safety of the vessels on it. The administration doesn't suddenly ignore vessels if they are outside of UK waters.

If your boat is not on the UK Register then just write to the administration of the flag it is under instead.

On your last point, would you clarify whose lives were lost that have prompted you to make your suggestion?

But personally, the concern you raise is not one we or anyone we know has ever felt. However, it is probably fair to see that in the light of our being required to operate on a different astral plane to that of weekend sailors.
 
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One further thought - is there any specific reason why they need to define a rectangle?

[/ QUOTE ]I agree with you, probably not, unless they are defining an exclusion zone or area of special rules. The even that triggered me to post my message was a DSC alert received in Almerimar, west of Almeria, simultaneously by two MRCCs, from Gibraltar to beyond Cartagena (many hundreds of miles). It was an urgency (pan pan) call regarding the receipt of a 406 EPIRB alert from a named Spanish FV, and the position was given by four lat/longs. Presumably this was not a GPS EPIRB and they were defining the area of uncertainty but imagine the problems this transmission caused, given that most of the shipping along this coast is non-Spanish. The transmission was given in English (somewhat accented) and Spanish (unintelligible to the crews of most commercial ships).

It would have been far better had they said "A 406 EPIRB alert has been received from the Spanish FV xxxxxx in an approximate position 11nm SSW of Adra, approximate lat/long ....." Did they really need to define a rectangle to define the area of uncertainty? Wouldn't it have been better to have said "the 406 EPIRB is not of the GPS type and the accuracy of the fix is approximately xxnm" which would help to educate people as to the accuracy of non-GPS EPIRBS and encourage those who can afford to, to buy GPS next time.
 
I think everyone will be pleasantly surprised by the reply I have had from the MCGA, and I copy it below.


[ QUOTE ]
Dear Mr Stevens,

Thank you for bringing this discussion to our attention.

I agree with you that the addition of range & bearing is, in many circumstances, useful and I have asked for relevant colleagues to identify for me any reason why we should not instruct our MRCCs to include them whenever appropriate. If none is forthcoming, that is the way we will go.


I cannot respond to the YBW thread myself, having no access rights, but if you have such rights and wish to quote me, I have no objection.


Thank you again for bringing the matter to our attention.


Season's greetings,

David Jardine-Smith
Acting Head of SAR Operations
The Maritime and Coastguard Agency


tel: +44 (0)23 8032 9108
fax: +44 (0)23 8032 9488
e-mail: dave.jardine-smith@mcga.gov.uk


[/ QUOTE ]

So, there you go. Let's wait and see if anyone has any objections.

Perhaps this thread and reply will be published in a forthcoming PBO.
 
Brilliant, Philip, well done and thank you!

I wonder if they could be persuaded to pass the idea to their colleagues overseas? It would be so much easier especially when there are language barriers.
 
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