Moving the boat abroad......advice

[aquaholic]

I really am so peed off with this weather and the wife has for a while been on about moving the boat abroad somewhere and using it as a holiday home in the sun (if i wanted a feckin caravan i would buy one!) but seriously I am now starting to think about it or at least maybe for a year or two and wondered if it is pheasable to do this and live back in the UK as well. Ideally it would be as near as possible but still far away enough to be able to benfit from warmer weather, was thinking Spain or S france? Would like to be able to get down for 4 day weekends as well as holidays.

I guess what I am asking is

A, what are the additional costs other than mooring, travelling and maintenance?

B, Location, i have heard about horrendous mooring charges?

C, how safe would it be?

Thanks

 

[chinita]

We keep a 32ft yacht in Portugal (Lagos). 9 months on the water and 3 summer months on the hard. total costs about £3k pa. Normally aboard between mid Sep and mid Jun. Security is excellent and marina staff very helpful (retaining mail for three months for example).

We drive out in a white van taking all that is expensive in Portugal with us. We return in the van loaded with booze.

Faro is a popular low cost airport and travel by resorthoppa to all Algarve marinas is good. the people are great and cost of living cheaper than UK. Weather not Med balmy but we like it as the Atlantic influence cools the heat and gives some variance in climate.

There are cheaper in Spain but, you get what you pay for - and I have been to every Marina in Med Spain.

Lagos Marina aint called 'Port Velcro' for nuthin!

 

[westernman]

Mooring charges for 52ft (67ft if you count the bowsprit) in Leucate, South of France are just under 4K euros per year. In my case the boat stays in all year round. Airports served by Ryanair not to far away (Beziers, Carcasonne, Montpellier etc etc).

 

[vyv_cox]

There are many addditional factors for your consideration. One is that most marinas in what is commonly known as the south of France are full, with long waiting lists. Those that are not full have some factor against them, e.g. Those on the long, straight coast close to the Spanish border are shallow, often very windy and offer very few nearby sailing destinations.

Having cruised most of this coast I would suggest you might look at Bay of Roses in northern Spain. I have berthed at the marina there for a couple of nights, it is a most attractive town, in a bay with plenty of sailing options. Not so baking hot as further south and mostly away from the strong winds of the mistral.

 

[Blue5]

We keep a 32ft yacht in Portugal (Lagos). 9 months on the water and 3 summer months on the hard. total costs about £3k pa. Normally aboard between mid Sep and mid Jun. Security is excellent and marina staff very helpful (retaining mail for three months for example).

We drive out in a white van taking all that is expensive in Portugal with us. We return in the van loaded with booze.

Faro is a popular low cost airport and travel by resorthoppa to all Algarve marinas is good. the people are great and cost of living cheaper than UK. Weather not Med balmy but we like it as the Atlantic influence cools the heat and gives some variance in climate.

There are cheaper in Spain but, you get what you pay for - and I have been to every Marina in Med Spain.

Lagos Marina aint called 'Port Velcro' for nuthin!

From my perspective Lagos was the most expensive marina we called in all the way from UK to Portugal.

They have this ridiculous price structure of 10 - 11.99 mts and then 12 - 15 mts, so our boat @ 12.03mts were paying the same as 15mts, so its not for us but would echo the rest of the advantages of the Algarve

 

[westernman]

There are many addditional factors for your consideration. One is that most marinas in what is commonly known as the south of France are full, with long waiting lists. Those that are not full have some factor against them, e.g. Those on the long, straight coast close to the Spanish border are shallow, often very windy and offer very few nearby sailing destinations.

Having cruised most of this coast I would suggest you might look at Bay of Roses in northern Spain. I have berthed at the marina there for a couple of nights, it is a most attractive town, in a bay with plenty of sailing options. Not so baking hot as further south and mostly away from the strong winds of the mistral.

But they are close to the Spanish border which around there is full of interesting crinkly bits with bays you can anchor in.

We like Roses too (mooring fees are more than twice what we pay where we are). The staff are very friendly and helpful. It is a favorite destination of ours about 48nm from us. There are also other marinas in the bay including the huge Empuriabrava, L'Escala and Santa Margarida.

We do have 20 miles of relatively unexciting flat beach until we get to the crinkly bit though. The crinkly bit between us and Roses includes includes the bay where Salvador Dali had his house, Cadaques which is worth a visit, Port El Selva which is a nice bay to anchor in and has some a good restaurants, Collioure which is nice if the weather is good (otherwise there is Port Vendres just next door where we sometimes go - when we do we park right next to the tables of a nice restaurant......).

The area next to Port Vendres includes Cap Bear where the mountains come down to the sea. It is renowed for unpredictable weather, as is Cabo Greus a bit further along in Spain.......

Going South from the Bay de Roses, it often gets bumpy and often bumpy without any wind (by far the worst) - in our experience.

 

[chinita]

From my perspective Lagos was the most expensive marina we called in all the way from UK to Portugal.

They have this ridiculous price structure of 10 - 11.99 mts and then 12 - 15 mts, so our boat @ 12.03mts were paying the same as 15mts, so its not for us but would echo the rest of the advantages of the Algarve

Agree about the price although i think that Vilamoura is probably even more expensive. For us, there are other considerations - family and friends there etc.

In any event, to have a holiday home which we use for up to nine months of the year at £60 per week including power and water is still good value.

We probably save almost that much by not needing to pay winter heating bills in UK.

 

[GrahamM376]

We're at the other end of the Algarve to Chinita. Have mooring buoy off Faro, they're hard to come by but save any marina costs. Renting a buoy when available is from 100 euro per month - we own ours so pay nothing.

Quite a few people leave their boats in Bruce's yard www.navepegos.com and lift in/out for a few weeks sailing or even live aboard in the yard if only down for a few days. 10 mins from Faro airport and Easy/Ryan flights can be under £25 if booked well ahead. Cheapest I heard was £3.99 to Stansted + £5 booking fee.

 

[Blue5]

Agree about the price although i think that Vilamoura is probably even more expensive.

Just for info in April one night in Vilamoura was 23€, one night in Lagos 38€

 

[westernman]

Just for info in April one night in Vilamoura was 23€, one night in Lagos 38€

Prices in most places vary by 2X between April and August, some by 3X.

Although we found one place where the price was constant all year round in Spain.

 

[chinita]

Just for info in April one night in Vilamoura was 23€, one night in Lagos 38€

I don't think the OP was asking about nightly rates.

A one year contract (for my boat) is more expensive in Vilamoura (€3773) than Lagos (€3363)..

Check the websites.

 

[PlanB]

Have a think about Gib (20 mins walk to airport), Alcaidesa (La Linea - same distance to Gib airport) or Duquesa, 25 mins by taxi.

 

[poter]

Port napoleon

Have a look at the Port Napoleon Website...fairly reasonable rates here.
I have been here off & on for 7 years & hopefully will be leaving for destinations further afield this year.

We have sailed most of the French coast East from here & you can get to Corsica & Sardinia quite easily, the Callanques are not to be missed & there are a few fishing ports that you can get into if you dont have too much draft. Carry & Sauset are great & not expensive.

OK in the Summer its hot & you have to get some netting for the Mossies there is also the Mistral to contend with but you can get into the bay of Foss if you just want to have a sail, we have in a full blown Mistral & even anchored near Martigues without a problem.The port is IMO well run & there are plenty of companies who will do maintanenece for you, including a british engineer. The port is quite safe & we have had no problems with security. Another plus is you have access to the French canal system thru Port St Louis just next door if you want.
You can fly from UK to either Nimes via Ryanair or Marselies via Easy peasy from Gatwick & hire a car for around 30pds a day, or you can drive down from St Marlo in about 10 to 12 hours.

Good luck from a very warm South of France.

 

[Fantasie 19]

We keep a 32ft yacht in Portugal (Lagos). 9 months on the water and 3 summer months on the hard. total costs about £3k pa. Normally aboard between mid Sep and mid Jun.

I'm interested in the response... why do you come out for 3 months in the summer?? Is it because of heat in mid-summer???

 

[aquaholic]

Thanks so much for all the replies, some really usefull info. I am now thinking about Sant Carles as a possibility if they have any room as its an MDL Marina, now have to start thinking about how to get the boat there if it comes off. I guess it's either round the outside, road from le harve or canals, but with 1.62 draught not sure that the canals are an option?

 

[nimbusgb]

You have discounted travel but its often forgotten when keeping a boat abroad. The additional cost of commuting to the boat, even if you only do it once or twice a year it can add anything from £150 to £1000 to the annual bill ( cost of getting to the airport at each end etc ) If you are fortunate enough to be able to travel on last minute tickets you can wheedl the cost to £50 or less per trip but get stuck with a holiday time trip and it can cost 10 times that.

If you leave the boat in the water you may feel safer paying guardianage to someone. It's convenient to have someone there to go and look to see it the rain is getting in or she's low in the water!

Getting chandlery is a little better given the current exchange rates and in France and Italy the supply and range is better than the UK afaic. In the Greek islands chandlery is pretty much take it or leave it.

As someone else mentioned I have also bought a 'white van'. I use it to take stuff to and from the boat once a season and as a storage shed for stuff that clutters up the boat otherwise.

Everything takes longer to do. Language challenges and not being there to supervise everythingmakes it a challenge.

Canals - 1.62m no problem just not the canal-du-midi

 

[aquaholic]

You have discounted travel but its often forgotten when keeping a boat abroad. The additional cost of commuting to the boat, even if you only do it once or twice a year it can add anything from £150 to £1000 to the annual bill ( cost of getting to the airport at each end etc ) If you are fortunate enough to be able to travel on last minute tickets you can wheedl the cost to £50 or less per trip but get stuck with a holiday time trip and it can cost 10 times that.

If you leave the boat in the water you may feel safer paying guardianage to someone. It's convenient to have someone there to go and look to see it the rain is getting in or she's low in the water!

Getting chandlery is a little better given the current exchange rates and in France and Italy the supply and range is better than the UK afaic. In the Greek islands chandlery is pretty much take it or leave it.

As someone else mentioned I have also bought a 'white van'. I use it to take stuff to and from the boat once a season and as a storage shed for stuff that clutters up the boat otherwise.

Everything takes longer to do. Language challenges and not being there to supervise everythingmakes it a challenge.

Canals - 1.62m no problem just not the canal-du-midi

I have included the travel costs and gussed at around £350 - £400 (if its less then great) for the 2 of us per trip, which I plan to have a minimum of 6 weeks a year, i.e 1 week every 2 months, this would be at the sacrifice of our main 2 week abroad holiday which would easily equate to the cost of travelling. I am not sure that we spend 6 weeks a year on the boat now even though it's 10 minutes away.....
Any idea on journey times through the canal or round the outside? Would be looking to do it delivery trip style with a friend whose quite well versed in long passages.

 

[Tranona]

I have included the travel costs and gussed at around £350 - £400 (if its less then great) for the 2 of us per trip, which I plan to have a minimum of 6 weeks a year, i.e 1 week every 2 months, this would be at the sacrifice of our main 2 week abroad holiday which would easily equate to the cost of travelling. I am not sure that we spend 6 weeks a year on the boat now even though it's 10 minutes away.....
Any idea on journey times through the canal or round the outside? Would be looking to do it delivery trip style with a friend whose quite well versed in long passages.

Sant Carles has a lot to offer in terms of the marina, but the location is not good for a sailing boat. There is nowhere for a day sail. Majorca is a day away, so it is best seen as a base for longer cruises. Other places around the Med are more suitable if you are looking for relaxing day sailing with a different port/anchorage each night. Access from UK is also not as good as many other locations. It is however, more like "real" Spain with a delightful local land based environment.

Getting there - either route by sea or canal is a major undertaking. Allow 3-4 weeks. Road delivery is easy. I had my boat (same size as yours) returned from Sant Carles by road to Poole for under £5k including handling 2 years ago. If the objective is just to get the boat there, this is better. 4 days and no wear and tear. But of course if the passage is part of the adventure then do it - but probably won't save you much money.

 

[chinita]

I'm interested in the response... why do you come out for 3 months in the summer?? Is it because of heat in mid-summer???

A number of reasons:

1. The rate for the summer three months is almost as much as the nine month contract.

2. The boat can dry out in the yard over the summer and is accessible for maintenance on our return.

3. It is hotter - but not unbearably so.

4. There are many more tourists around the town. The marina area is crowded and nowhere near as pleasant as the winter and shoulder seasons.

5. We have a house in UK needs the normal maintenance stuff.

6. We have family and friends in UK to see.

7. We quite enjoy doing some of the UK summer things - Festivals and such like.

8. We have a wooden boat in UK which needs work - and a bit of sailing!

The vast majority of Lagos based boats will vacate their berths from 15 Jun - 15 Sep. Either to leave their boats on the hard, like us, or sail off into the Med for the summer via a number of anchorages (Alvor, Culatra, Guadiana).

Others choose to travel to the Azores, Madeira or the Canaries.

One of the attractions to us is the wide variety of boats and crews overwintering - a nice community of upwards of 100 people from all over the world. Of course, last winters contingent have all moved on now. However, a new bunch will start to arrive from October onwards.

In the meantime, the vacant (larger) berths will be occupied by visiting boats. When we left the marina was expecting about 40 boats from Rally Portugal and ARC Europe to arrive.

 

[nimbusgb]

Canals - Via Paris, best resource is Grehans site.

I believe that a 5 week transit across France is 'working hard'