Said the volunteer Harbour Patrol as we passed through Portsmouth Harbour entrance at about 10 o'clock Sunday morning.While about 30 feet away was one of these......
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"Move over & start your engine"
- Thread starter KristiferColumbus
- Start date
Sorry there should be a picture of a gig that passed through at about the same time manned by about half a dozen blokes rowing.Just wondered how they make out in an engineless boat.
Nelson would turn in his grave.All practical common sense seems to have gone out the window.
Nelson would turn in his grave.All practical common sense seems to have gone out the window.
fireball
Well-Known Member
byelaws state that you must have your engine running if you have one .... also you must use the small boat channel if appropriately sized...
doesn't state that you can't sail in or out though.
Nelson wouldn't have turned in his grave - he would be itching to get his hands on one of the warships ....
doesn't state that you can't sail in or out though.
Nelson wouldn't have turned in his grave - he would be itching to get his hands on one of the warships ....
robp
Well-Known Member
"Nelson would turn in his grave.All practical common sense seems to have gone out the window."
But Nelson didn't have dozens of large powered vessels going in and out, erm at a rate of knots!
They'll give you permission on ch 14 if yr engine has failed. Or is that 11? Senior moment...
But Nelson didn't have dozens of large powered vessels going in and out, erm at a rate of knots!
They'll give you permission on ch 14 if yr engine has failed. Or is that 11? Senior moment...
snooks
Well-Known Member
It's ch11 for QHM at Portsmouth
All the information for going in and out is in an almanac, the routes you should take, which side of ballast you should pass, where the small boat channel starts etc. etc.
Yet every time I go through I see someone who doesn't do as they should.....I've never had a run in with the harbour patrol, maybe because I'm playing by their rules
All the information for going in and out is in an almanac, the routes you should take, which side of ballast you should pass, where the small boat channel starts etc. etc.
Yet every time I go through I see someone who doesn't do as they should.....I've never had a run in with the harbour patrol, maybe because I'm playing by their rules
fireball
Well-Known Member
I've been ushered in once ... we were a little too far out due to 1) current and 2) the scrum of boats further in.
Seeing some leisure boats pootle through the entrance completely oblivious to the commercial traffic is alarming!!
snooks
Well-Known Member
Yep you do have to be careful of the ebb coming out of Haslar creek. I will slow down a bit if it looks like a bun fight is developing ahead..."If you can't beat em, join em!" doesn't work trying to get into and out of Portsmothwhen it's busy!
alahol2
Well-Known Member
Quite, if feasible and safe we will normally sail in or out, we usually put the engine on to satisfy the requirements. This Monday we were actually accompanied to the entrance by a customs rib who wanted to practice running alongside. Didn't like to put the engine on, it might have put them off.
There wer'nt dozens of large powered vessels going in & out In fact I don't think I have ever known it so quiet.I remarked upon the fact that it was in the middle of our summer.The weather conditions could hardly have been better for sailing & the magority must have been on holiday.
The conditions were that we were sailing out with the tide in about a force 4 & had got to within about 30 feet of the end of Fort Blockhouse & were within about 50 feet of the Fort itself.
It would have been more dangerous for me to have leant over the back of the stern to start the motor & there were absolutely no ferries or any large vessels anywhere in sight.
I think the bloke lost his rag because of the sight of a sail & a means of propulsion that he obviously knew very little about.It just seemed like petty small mindedness to me.Or should that be officious bullying?
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Twister_Ken
Well-Known Member
I suspect the status of being a QHM's volunteer seems to attract a certain sort of jobsworth who gets free boating and a licence to be officious. I was once pootling in when the launch scuttled over and asked if I required assistants. They seemed somewhat bemused when I replied "Only if they're wearing short skirts."
robp
Well-Known Member
I bet he'd been waiting all day for you. No notches on his transom that day..
lw395
Well-Known Member
That's about right. We have a good view of the Harbour entrance, we have a game about guessing who's going to get picked on next. Yet when someone does something really daft and causes real problems, they are too busy harassing the wrong people. The MOD police are generally OK but sometimes don't seem to hear boats getting permission to cross, I suspect they don't listen to Ch 11 all the time.
A lot of problems in the entrance are caused by people bimbling against the tide, even under motor, it would help if people used a few more revs and cleared the congested area more quickly in many cases.
I think it's less chaotic than Poole though?
At least at the moment we aren't paying harbour dues to support a 'professional' civilian Harbour Master's team.
snooks
Well-Known Member
Let us hope that one day you won't need their assistance.
They were only trying to help...I can imagine your post if they hadn't offered a hand. "I was motoring slowly, obviously with a problem, and they just sat there doing nothing, didn't even come over to check if I was alright!"
Seems a case of damned if they do, and damned if they don't
Anyhow, I really don't see what the problem is....It's all laid out quite clearly here
If you have an engine you must use it "All craft fitted with engines, when navigating in the Approach Channel to Portsmouth Harbour, are to proceed under power between No 4 Bar Buoy and the Ballast Beacon."
Mulge
Well-Known Member
I'm a little surprised that QHM's volunteers manage to invoke the ire of so many people - its not the first time that their activities have been the subject of a thread here.
As mentioned above the MOD police soon get involved if there are any transgressions too close to the eastern side of the harbour and QHM's volunteers have, in my experience limited themselves to the harbour mouth and the occasional foray outside to deal with jet skiers. I have always taken the view that it would be easiest for the Royal Navy to decide that for security's sake they need to vet all users of the harbour and that as a consequence leisure use should be banned. Any outcry from the leisure users would be met by a threat to move to Plymouth. As things stand QHM has to manage RN, ferries (x-channel and IOW), fast cats, fishing boats and leisure craft and seems to do this most of the time with the minimum of fuss and distruption. A few clear rules applying to the channel between No 4 bouy and Ballast Pile, applicable all the time for the avoidance of doubt is eminently sensible, in my opinion.
Mark
As mentioned above the MOD police soon get involved if there are any transgressions too close to the eastern side of the harbour and QHM's volunteers have, in my experience limited themselves to the harbour mouth and the occasional foray outside to deal with jet skiers. I have always taken the view that it would be easiest for the Royal Navy to decide that for security's sake they need to vet all users of the harbour and that as a consequence leisure use should be banned. Any outcry from the leisure users would be met by a threat to move to Plymouth. As things stand QHM has to manage RN, ferries (x-channel and IOW), fast cats, fishing boats and leisure craft and seems to do this most of the time with the minimum of fuss and distruption. A few clear rules applying to the channel between No 4 bouy and Ballast Pile, applicable all the time for the avoidance of doubt is eminently sensible, in my opinion.
Mark
fireball
Well-Known Member
Easy to say, not to do.
really - I dont think the Navy is that petty!!
QHM doesn't HAVE to manage anything - however, due to the considerable commercial traffic management is inevitable. It wouldn't be impossible to change it to lights if QHM really didn't want to bother on the radio...
The "complaints" on here are rarely about QHM, but his volunteers in the patrol boats - even then it's not all of them - just a couple where the "power" seems to have gone to their heads a little...
But I suppose we could knee jerk and ban all leisure users from Portsmouth Dockyard ... that should sort all the problems ....
Twister_Ken
Well-Known Member
"They were only trying to help...I can imagine your post if they hadn't offered a hand. "I was motoring slowly, obviously with a problem, and they just sat there doing nothing, didn't even come over to check if I was alright!" "
Mon chér Snooks, if I'd had a problem I'd have given them a 'come here' wave, or a shout on the wireless thingie.
Mon chér Snooks, if I'd had a problem I'd have given them a 'come here' wave, or a shout on the wireless thingie.
lw395
Well-Known Member
Yes the rules are mostly sensible, but the 'special pedallo force' have a very odd style of enforcing them. Some of the individuals involved are not really very good with the public, and some of them don't even know the rules terribly well. The rules are also not brilliantly written and a little open to interpretation if you are not going to/from the entrance. Some of the volunteers are good friends of mine and are a little disparaging about some of their colleagues. As others have said, they do occassionally help people out with a tow, information etc, but many of the yachts going in and out will do the same.
A boat with an outboard can sometimes sail much more effectively than motor, depending on the wind direction. I suspect the rule was meant to mean boats with proper inboard engines. The wind can be very fluky in the small boat channel though and loitering or just letting the tide carry you in can be a nuisance to others. When you get a big yacht slow to 3 knots to avoid overtaking then a motor boat overtakes anyway it can get very shapeless. Still I've not seen any actual collisions yet this year!
Bear in mind you will be on radar and cctv!
Best advice is to sail during the week and avoid the saturday morning dash to Cowes.
jason -and the arguenauts
Well-Known Member
If they are anything like the range boat crews we have round here, I'm not surprised at all. As someone has said, these jobs seem to attract the oiks who just like ordering people about.
grow up!. You could say with far more justice that we, the taxpayers, provide the toys for the navy to play with and they shouldnt get in our way on our days off.
The reality is that Portsmouthis neither a big not a very busy port and should be a lot easier to manage than the likes of Felixstowe / harwich, or Dover so I'm sure the navy is up to doing the job to the satisfaction of all users.
It could well be more sensible to have the small fleet we own in one navy port rather than several.
Twister_Ken
Well-Known Member
Harbour patrol couldn't stop this happening...
lw395
Well-Known Member
Maybe they'll get the chance to try if they ever build those carriers (and they turn out bigger than the Pride of Bilbao....)