Motorsailer vs Yacht to live on

Seastoke

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90% anchorage seems to be a dream to me , where do you get water from.
shopping washing clothes,etc.
 

shannonyachtgirl

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just out of curiosity with different vessles and fuel consumption, what would the difference be cost wise between a motor sailor type boat and an actual sailing yacht with a smaller motor? if someone was sailing between a 40ft sailing boat from the uk to spain what would they be looking at spending in terms of fuel compared to a motorsailor
 

srm

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May I suggest you pay for a week or so sailing, either something like a competent crew course with a sailing school or an individual berth on a skippered charter yacht. You will gain some experience of living and sleeping on board, all be it with a bunch of strangers. Boats are a strange environment, some people take to them and others don't.

Its just that some years ago a friend joined me for an overnight passage. He had his own boat, but had only done day sailing. He specifically wanted to experience a night at sea out of sight of land, which is what I was going to do from one Azores island to another. We had a nice beam wind so an easy sail, though I had to reef a couple of times, but it had been blowing for a few days so also a beam sea causing a fair bit of rolling. My friend soon retired to a bunk clutching a bucket and stayed there all night. As we got in the lee of the destination island in the morning we were becalmed and had to start the engine so asked him if he would like to steer. This got him on deck, in the fresh air, and he soon recovered, but sadly it was an end to his passage making ambitions.
 

jakeroyd

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Just to set your mind in a slightly different direction.
Examine your motives for wondering about living on a boat.
Is it to travel, is it to not live in a house etc.
Think about a canal boat or a motorhome or maybe a static caravan. All offer a similar experience for less cost than a boat in a marina.
Good luck.
 

nortada

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To move the discussion on in a different direction.

From personal experience, for the past 20+ years we have lived on and off a Dufour 38, which provided an excellent home in which we travelled many thousands of miles. The longest periods continuously on living on board was 5 years from 2002 to 2027 and 2 years during Covid.

Every year we wintered aboard in warmer climates but returned to the UK for summer when we lived in a caravan but had a Snapdragon 27 for local sailing and shorter stays living onboard.

Surplus to current requirements, in 2005 we sold our house and invested the money for when our circumstances changed.

Where needed, various family members provided us with a mailing address.

Advancing years, 2 years ago we sold the Dufour and the Snapdragon bought back into bricks and mortar, sizing down.

We now have a 10 m twin diesel Freeman 33 (layout attached); possibly more comfortable living accommodation than the Dufour.

Interested in the boat, google Freeman 33 for sale. There are a number on the market (around £20k).

We cruise locally and still live inboard for short periods.. Better protection in inclement weather and we can run for shelter at 30 kts but fuel considerations mean we usually poodle around under 10 kts.

The boat is about 40 years old, a dry hull with no osmosis (a curse of Freemans) and we paid £18k back in 2018.

Attached is the Freeman lay out, which provides private spacious accommodation for 4 or less private for 6 if you use the saloon - this we would never do.

We have a 2.5 KVA petrol/electric generator to provide 250v AC, if needed (which is seldom), to provide mains power when at anchor or when on our buoy and are considering fitting solar panels to augment our batteries. We hah 100w of solar power on the Dufour which proved excellent, unlike the wind bugger (too much or nothing) which was our worst purchase.

Regarding them a bit of a compromise, leaning towards power rather than sail, we considered motor sailors but have never owned one.

IMG_0306.png
 
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ylop

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And yes long periods on board, 3 months on 2 months off is what I have in my head to start with. But that leads to the question that might be obvious to you guys but what do you have to do with the boat in off periods? Haul out?
Your options are marina - expensive
Mooring - often expensive for short periods, may not be insured in winter
Haul out - at say £250 to lift out, and £250 to lift back in, plus storage fees that becomes expensive to do everytime you are not using the boat. There may be cheaper options but probably not easy to find wherever you end up and for short periods.
Intention wise is a bit of all of the above but it's very early days to say anything for certain until I have tried. Better climate, adventure, with remote study.
Don’t underestimate how tiring sailing is or how much work it takes just to keep a boat running. Having the energy to do that, study and enjoy the climate is no mean feat.

, 5 years from now I would offer legal services.
I don’t know how much you’ve worked out your business plan but finding clients = responding quickly to their needs, and legal services are often in a rush. That means work will dictate when you can / can’t sail. But so will the weather.
Wifi is a must so from watching YouTube I think a Starling is aboout £90 a month. I'd need solar without a doubt.
Mmm I think that is the “in land” cost - whilst many seem to get away with that you need to believe Musk is not just trying to gain market share before turning up the price to believe it!
90% anchorage seems to be a dream to me , where do you get water from.
shopping washing clothes,etc.
Plenty of people do manage those things but managing them becomes a job in itself - whether it’s planning trips to fill tanks, finding laundrettes, or maintaining water makers and solar etc. I would suggest it’s like going back to living in a house 100 years ago - doing it as a single person, with a job is a lot of work.
just out of curiosity with different vessles and fuel consumption, what would the difference be cost wise between a motor sailor type boat and an actual sailing yacht with a smaller motor? if someone was sailing between a 40ft sailing boat from the uk to spain what would they be looking at spending in terms of fuel compared to a motorsailor
too many variables to say, including personal things like how much of hurry you are in, the conditions you like or sail in etc. moving boats through the water with an engine is very inefficient. Motoring all the way my gut feel (without doing any proper sums) then from solent to northern Spain could cost you over £1K in fuel - but solar panels, batteries, water makers, etc will all mean fuel cost - probably isn’t the biggest cost of buying an old boat and being ready to live aboard in sunnier climes.

Assuming the engine is a sensible size for the boat - working fairly hard a diesel is probably burning about 2-3 L for every 10 HP it is supposed to put out. A 40ft er is probably not going to go much over 7 knots no matter how much power you apply - so you can do the maths. Some would sail the whole way through very careful planning, lots of experience and being in no rush. Others will be glad of calm weather for the crossing and happily motor.
 

38mess

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If you are planning to live aboard in the UK at a Marina I would look carefully at the terms and conditions of said marinas. Most turned a blind eye despite a No Live aboard policy.
But this year our marina seem to be enforcing it.
Good luck, it was always a dream of mine to live aboard but work/various wife's/ lots of kids put paid to it.
 

nortada

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If you are planning to live aboard in the UK at a Marina I would look carefully at the terms and conditions of said marinas. Most turned a blind eye despite a No Live aboard policy.
But this year our marina seem to be enforcing it.
Good luck, it was always a dream of mine to live aboard but work/various wife's/ lots of kids put paid to it.
Marinas are under increasing pressure from local councils to bring liveaboards into the taxation net to cover their use of local services and amenities.
 

38mess

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Marinas are under increasing pressure from local councils to bring liveaboards into the taxation net to cover their use of local services and amenities.
At our marina you need to provide a council tax invoice to prove you have a main residence other than the boat. They are now saying only 30 days a year can be spent onboard. I don't know how hard it will be enforced, there are around 50 live aboards.
 

V1701

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Thinking about the difference in fuel costs between a sailboat with, say, a 35hp engine and a motorsailer with, say, a 60hp engine on the way to Spain are pretty irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. You'd hope to sail most of the way in the sailboat, motorsail or sail if there's enough wind for it in the motorsailer. I have a 65hp engine in my boat & motoring I'll average a gallon an hour depending very much on conditions.
But all this is minutiae, what you need to find out is whether living on a boat is for you or not by somehow spending some time on one. If after doing that you think it might be, then where are you going to base yourself. If UK it is not viable to think you might be able to anchor 90% of the time, nor is it viable to think that you can live full time on a boat on a swinging mooring in the UK, we just do not have the climate for it. So that leaves marinas, a lot of which now absolutely will not tolerate liveaboards any longer. Some do & some have extended use contracts but if you're planning on buying & living in the UK do your research & have somewhere lined up first. If Spain, or Portugal, say, you can find marina berths available for less than UK & they also tend to be more relaxed about living on. Somewhere like Greece you can just about get away with anchoring most of the time...

Edit: I'm assuming you're lucky to have an Irish passport and don't have the Schengen 90/180 visa requirements to consider like we unfortunates with British passports...:LOL:
 
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shannonyachtgirl

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May I suggest you pay for a week or so sailing, either something like a competent crew course with a sailing school or an individual berth on a skippered charter yacht. You will gain some experience of living and sleeping on board, all be it with a bunch of strangers. Boats are a strange environment, some people take to them and others don't.

It’s just that some years ago a friend joined me for an overnight passage. He had his own boat, but had only done day sailing. He specifically wanted to experience a night at sea out of sight of land, which is what I was going to do from one Azores island to another. We had a nice beam wind so an easy sail, though I had to reef a couple of times, but it had been blowing for a few days so also a beam sea causing a fair bit of rolling. My friend soon retired to a bunk clutching a bucket and stayed there all night. As we got in the lee of the destination island in the morning we were becalmed and had to start the engine so asked him if he would like to steer. This got him on deck, in the fresh air, and he soon recovered, but sadly it was an end to his passage making ambitions.
Yeah my local sailing club suggested getting some experience on a crew course and then do a day skipper but that’s unfortunate for your friend as well, I think it’s right saying it’s not for everyone but it’s defo worth a try been an interest of mine for quite sometime but everyone’s advice on here has been great.
 
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Kelpie

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from what ive gathered from reading up on things and youtube, people seem to get a pressurised reverse osmosis system or fill water tanks but im not too sure
It's not a big deal. We have been living aboard full time for about two and a half years and have never struggled you find water at a pier or marina. We also collect rainwater which we use for showers and dishwashing, which together make up the vast bulk of usage.
Most people have a watermaker (reverse osmosis system) but it's not essential.
 

Kelpie

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I am just browsing (cheap) sail boats that I can live on.

I've watched a lot of youtube video's of people doing similar on a budget and was looking for a sail boat somethiing like a Beneteau Oceanis Clipper 361.
But I've just come across a really cheap (and very old) Miller Marine Fife Motorsailer that looks amazing space wise.

Might be a stupid newbie question, but do people cruise or sail (windpower only) motorsailers?
Lots of if great advice already.
We (family of three) have been living aboard for two and a half years. There are pros and cons. Everything is more difficult as an itinerant cruiser. No car, no postal address. Always watching power and water consumption. Rolly nights where you don't get a wink of sleep.

The upsides make it worthwhile though. We've visited dozens of countries, met fascinating people, seen and experienced things that we would never have even known existed.

Personally, I would only live on a boat long term if it meant being able to travel, and not having to work full time. Being tied to land life whilst living on a boat would be the worst of all worlds and the novelty would quickly wear off. But you might feel differently about it.
 

srm

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from what ive gathered from reading up on things and youtube, people seem to get a pressurised reverse osmosis system or fill water tanks but im not too sure
Having bought my first cruising yacht in the mid 70's and mainly sailing in Scandinavian and European waters I never found a need for one.
From what I read when considering one they do require clean sea water to avoid damaging the membrane so only really usable in oceanic waters. If you are planning long distance ocean sailing then yes, though you will probably have to carry extra fuel to run the machine or an extensive solar array. If seriously interested use the search box or start a specific thread as there are people on the forum with first hand experience.
 
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Kelpie

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Having bought my first cruising yacht in the mid 70's and mainly sailing in Scandinavian and European waters I never found a need for one.
From what I read when considering one they do require clean sea water to avoid damaging the membrane so only really usable in oceanic waters. If you are planning long distance ocean sailing then yes, though you will probably have to carry extra fuel to run the machine or an extensive solar array. If seriously interested use the search box or start a specific thread as there are people on the forum with first hand experience.
The main thing is to avoid chemical contamination, like oil or diesel. And that tends to be in a thin film at the surface.
Most other stuff gets caught in the 20 and 5 micron filters. That's what they're for.
People run watermakers in water that you wouldn't swim in. It's not that big a deal.
 
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