Motoring Cones

SolentBoy said:
Imagine you are sailing along, on main only with the engine ticking over. According to the rules you should have the cone up. Flick the engine off (2 seconds) and you are now legal. Absurd in my opinion.
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You might end up with a bit of a close call though if you do that in order to stand on your rights. The other boat who has assumed you're motoring (because very few AWBs sail around under mainsail only) and are the give-way vessel is not going to know that you've slipped your engine out of gear and are planning to stand on as a sailing boat. Hopefully neither of you are going to stand on to the point of contact but even though you might be strictly legal I'd suggest you have made the situation worse by suddenly ceasing to motor-sail.

Pete
 
SolentBoy said:
Does it actually serve any really useful purpose?

Imagine you are sailing along, on main only with the engine ticking over. According to the rules you should have the cone up. Flick the engine off (2 seconds) and you are now legal. Absurd in my opinion.
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The law is an ass but it's not that much of an ass. Dont rely on that approach.
 
No

It is using the engine that defines powered status, not having the engine running.

After a sailback from France I once sailed up to The Folly. In a seamanlike manner I had the engine idling just in case oa f lull in the wind etc.

After taking the water taxi across across to The Folly, the Harbourmaster,who runs the water taxi, asked to speak to the Master of our boat - me.

He asked if I was aware of the bylaw requiring the use of an engine between the high speed cat landing jetty and UKSA. I wasn't and he then asked where my motoring cone was - he'd heard the engine. He accepted that as I wasn't using it I didn't need to show it. He was happy we weren't holigans and I learnt a new bylaw.

[/B]QUOTE=SolentBoy;3035568]Does it actually serve any really useful purpose?
,
Imagine you are sailing along, on main only with the engine ticking over. According to the rules you should have the cone up. Flick the engine off (2 seconds) and you are now legal. Absurd in my opinion.

Yes, I know the argument about manoeuvrability but I think it is one of those silly conventions with little practical value and that's why the vast majority of sailors don't bother.

Of course there will be those who do. That is their choice, but unless everyone does it you cannot rely on it, so it is worthless, and if you are single handed in rough weather the idea of leaving a safe cockpit to hoist a cone is ridiculous and dangerous potentially.[/QUOTE]
 
I don't own one and no particular rush to get one.
Never motor sail with gennie up, and as others have said pretty pointless when doing 5-6 knots with mainsail dead centre.
But before I get the incoming, what about all the fishing Signals welded onto fishing boats even in harbour?
 
I rarely see one on the East Coast. I do have one and used to hoist it years ago but haven't done so for some years. Never been accosted about not using one. They are used in Holland though and have used it there.
 
There's one onboard my boat, I've never used it though. More to my surprise the other day was a phonecall from my dad who was borrowing my boat for the weekend asking where my anchor ball was. I told him where I thought it was........ only it appears that I don't have one! Oops. Better rectify that. The motoring cone may be a waste of time but I think the anchor ball is of much more use!
 
alant said:
Why would you still have the headsail up, it'll be back winded.
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I motorsail with headsail, main and mizzen up sometimes - not dead into the wind but with the sails drawing. It is motoring and sailing at the same time to get a bit of extra speed or to get cruising speed at lower revs as opposed to just motoring with the mainsail still hoisted.
 
I have used a motoring cone on the odd occasion where it conveys useful information. One example:

A few years ago I was gently motor sailing in a F2 with main and genoa set heading for West Loch Tarbert, Harris. On my starboard beam, heading in the same general direction and slowly converging, was a fish farm supply vessel. I hoisted the cone to make it quite clear that I was motoring so he was the stand on vessel and I was prepared to alter course if necessary. As it happened, before it got to that stage, he altered course to service another fish farm.
 
So I believe it is Rule 20 of rules of the Road which says we should use the cone when motor sailing. Most people seem to ignore it so is it ok to pick and choose which rules apply to you. Why put a steaming light on during darkness and leave the tricolour on? Is it not th same?
 
Nostrodamus said:
So I believe it is Rule 20 of rules of the Road which says we should use the cone when motor sailing. Most people seem to ignore it so is it ok to pick and choose which rules apply to you. Why put a steaming light on during darkness and leave the tricolour on? Is it not th same?
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+1
My cone ,anchor ball and anchor light are stowed at the foot of the mast,ready to be deployed in the foretriangle.
 
Nostrodamus said:
Why [not] put a steaming light on during darkness and leave the tricolour on? Is it not th same?
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Not quite the same, because on a dark night your lights are all that people have to go on so you should make them clear. Whereas any fool can see that a yacht under mainsail only zooming dead upwind at six knots on a calm day is motoring, so it feels a bit unnecessary to add the little plastic cone that achieves no practical purpose.

Pete
 
Nostrodamus said:
numerous boats motor sailing
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It depends on how you define motor sailing.

I haven't looked up the book definition but I reckon it to be sailing off the wind with head and main sails up and engine on so I can point a bit higher or go a bit faster. In this case the cone will be obscured by the head sail for quite a wide angle so an approaching boat wont see it, so I tend not to bother!

I don't consider motoring up to or just off the wind with the main up and head sail furled to be motor sailing so again I don't hoist a cone.

I am probably wrong but it looks like I am in with the herd :o
 
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prv said:
Not quite the same, because on a dark night your lights are all that people have to go on so you should make them clear. Whereas any fool can see that a yacht under mainsail only zooming dead upwind at six knots on a calm day is motoring, so it feels a bit unnecessary to add the little plastic cone that achieves no practical purpose.

Pete
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There are plenty of old fools out there you may confuse and also those who as mentioned in this thread who may just "flick their engine off" so they then become the stand on.
On a calm day into the wind then you may be able to see but we are talking about close up. Mobos tend to travel faster and want to alter course from further away when they may be the stand on vessel.
What about a lumpy sea, windy, well reefed but engine on?
The point of rules is to make everything clear to everyone not to adapt, pick and choose or disregard them.

t t
 
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