Motorboating Croatia vs. South France

[mornar1969]

After many years of motorboating in Croatia, I'd like to move with a boat to France.
Currently, we have a 16m motorboat, and the size is almost perfect for boating in Croatian islands.
However, with a boat above 24m, there could be quite a problem to find appropriate berth during peak season.

Has anyone any experience with boating in both areas?

Can anyone compare:
- sea conditions (should I consider bigger boat... 20m + ?)
- berth booking (reservations, occupancy)?
- ... any other thoughts, suggestions

 

[EME]

After many years of motorboating in Croatia, I'd like to move with a boat to France.
Currently, we have a 16m motorboat, and the size is almost perfect for boating in Croatian islands.
However, with a boat above 24m, there could be quite a problem to find appropriate berth during peak season.

Has anyone any experience with boating in both areas?

Can anyone compare:
- sea conditions (should I consider bigger boat... 20m + ?)
- berth booking (reservations, occupancy)?
- ... any other thoughts, suggestions

There is absolutely no need to think you need a bigger boat in the South of France.

Deleted User knows both areas well as does MYAG inter alia so rather than answering from a SoF perspective they can compare and contrast.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

We spent one season in SoF in 2003 and we are about to move there again. We spent 4 seasons in Croatia from 2010 to 2013 so I suppose I'm qualified to make some sort of comparison. Actually the 2 areas are about as different as you can get in the Med.

As you know Croatia is a superb cruising area with a huge choice of ports and anchorages and which rarely feels crowded except for the hotspots like Split, Hvar and Dubrovnik. We rarely had a problem finding berths in Croatia in August for our 16m boat even at short notice. On the other hand, the SoF will feel very crowded everywhere, the coastline as a cruising area is not as interesting and at least when we were there it was almost impossible to find visitor berths in marinas during the height of the season. The season is shorter in Croatia with a colder winter whereas in SoF the season is longer and the winters more mild. The water in Croatia is a few degrees cooler for swimming but on the other hand it is very clear and we never saw the numbers of jellyfish that we saw in SoF. As you know, except for a few restaurants, the cuisine in Croatia is quite basic whereas in SoF you can eat whatever you want (at a price). SoF is definitely more expensive for everything including berthing, fuel (at least in 2013) and maintenance

The 2 big downsides of Croatia for me, compared to SoF, are these. Firstly there are no direct flights from London airports to the coastal cities like Split or Zadar between Oct and April whereas there are many flights to Nice every day from London. Second we found it difficult to get skilled technicians to repair boat problems in Croatia whereas in SoF skilled maintenance is not an issue (at a price)

You definitely don't need a bigger boat for SoF although there are berths for much bigger boats than 16m of course. We found the sea conditions to be mostly benign in SoF; it is not an area known for high winds although the further west you go towards Marseille and beyond, the mistral wind blows more often and harder

If you're looking for something different you might wish to consider Sardinia, which is very beautiful and most of which has the same uncrowded feel as Croatia but you do need to be more careful with sea conditions in that area

 

[mornar1969]

Mike, thanks....

How did you solve the berthing problem in SoF during July/August?
Did they practice any reservations / booking system, or not at all.

In Croatia, there is quite easy to find a berth, but they also practice reservations (good practice at hot spots and around Kornati islands).
However, in ACI marinas (during all Croatian coast), you have to pay full price of berth in advance (at the moment of reservation), and you have to book at least 24h in advance.

Could you suggest any nice berthing places?

I'm quite a regular visitor of SoF (from MC to St.Trop.), so I can easily agree with the restaurants opinion!
The best restaurants in Croatia hardly compare with any "brasserie level" in SoF.
Hovewer, the prices are often at the same level, specially at the hot spots.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

How did you solve the berthing problem in SoF during July/August?
Did they practice any reservations / booking system, or not at all.

mornar1969, I can only speak from our experience in 2003. It was very difficult then to get visitor berths in other marinas during high season and it seemed impossible to book ahead. I don't know whether the situation is better now. Possibly it is because of course everything is done by email now. Frankly I did find that in a few marinas a €30 or €40 tip to a marinero would suddenly find a berth. Again I don't know whether this has changed now. In the end we found that trying to visit other marinas was so difficult in high season that we just used to day boat out of our home marina and sometimes anchor overnight

However, in ACI marinas (during all Croatian coast), you have to pay full price of berth in advance (at the moment of reservation), and you have to book at least 24h in advance.

I must say that this seems to have changed since we were in Croatia. I remember only been asked for payment in advance at ACI Dubrovnik

Could you suggest any nice berthing places?

Well I've just bought a lease on a berth in Antibes (5 years remaining). There are quite a few berth leases for sale now and the prices are reasonable, certainly no more than the rental cost for 5 years. Otherwise you may find long term berths for rent in Baie des Anges. We also liked La Napoule. Maybe some other forumites could comment on this?

 

[mornar1969]

@Deleted User:

Any experience with Fontvieille marina (Monaco), and marinas in Saint Maxime and St.Tropez...?

I've also heard that Port of Antibes isn't quite friendly (criminal rate - Vallauris nearby, car burglary for foreign licence plates)....

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Any experience with Fontvieille marina (Monaco)

Oh yes. We pitched up there one October afternoon to find a half empty marina. Parked on the holding pontoon and a bloke arrived. I asked him for a berth and he said no, the marina was full.. I protested that the marina was half empty and then the penny dropped. I gave him a €20 note and he still shook his head. I put another €20 note into his hand and he nodded. Suddenly we could have any berth we wanted. That wasn't the end of the shenanigans. During the evening, the wind blew up and the big boat next to us, a Canados, started to 'lean' heavily on our boat (Targa 48). There seemed to be somebody on board so I knocked on the boat and asked the person who came out, who announced he was the skipper, to tighten up his lines. Nothing happened. So I knocked on the boat again, spoke to the man and again nothing happened. So in exasperation my SWMBO and I went on board the Canados, tightened up the lines as best we could and put some extra lines out to try to hold it off our boat. The 'skipper' appeared and thanked us profusely and then admitted he wasn't the skipper at all but a friend of the owner. He looked a bit forlorn so we invited him aboard our boat for a drink. After a whisky or two, he told us that the Canados (called Highlander) belonged to David Coulthard and that Coulthard had allowed him to stay on board so that he could try to stay off the bottle for a while. Well that didn't turn out too well because he finished every last drop off Scotch we had on board

I guess that doesn't help you at all!

I've also heard that Port of Antibes isn't quite friendly (criminal rate - Vallauris nearby, car burglary for foreign licence plates)

Yes Antibes is full of criminals and most of them own boats on Mole Sud No seriously I've not heard that it is a particular hive of criminality although some of the berths near the Y quay have reputedly been subject to break ins but I can't confirm that for sure. Maybe some Antibes old hands can confirm?

 

[Nick_H]

A few boats, including ours, were boarded during Euro 2016 by petty thieves looking for booze, but no forced entry or damage AFAIK. That's the first issue we've had in 9 years on Mole Sud, and i've not really heard of any others. I think it's a safe marina with

 

[adey]

During my brief 8 months in the CDA it seemed everybody wanted a 'tip' for something, even for non boaty stuff.
One that amused me was the tips jar in the gents of a casino. No attendant, nothing special about it, just a big sign suggesting you must tip.
I never liked it when marina staff said "non", followed by a shoulder shrug and a pause. May as well have just held out their hand.
Stark contrast to Italy where nobody expected or wanted a tip and they were happy to just provide the service you were paying for.

 

[MapisM]

I've also heard that Port of Antibes isn't quite friendly (criminal rate - Vallauris nearby, car burglary for foreign licence plates)....

Aha...!
I guess Deleted User will now understand why the ad for the berth he just bought said something along the lines of...
"Desperate seller, moving to CF to stay as far from PV as possible, bring offers no matter how indecent!"

 

[Portofino]

Just caught up with this thread .
There's approx 4 y to run @ Antibes on the berth leases (2021) and 13 y @ La. Napoule ( 2029) this may even go up more?

Antibes above ,we have a small appartment therein the "Ramparts " and have not noticed any crime or ever felt intimidated,no more so than anywhere else on the CdA .However the only CCTV evident s around the quay millionaire -that's the almost empty on the LHS -pic taken last Fri .
There does not seem to be any real security -the Vast majority is open plan with the town

Beach Above is right next door at the top of the 1st pic -other side of the wall behind the RHS superyacht .Theres another bigger beach in the bay approx 15 min walk S towards the Cap where one can hire usual stuff ,skis, hobby cats etc

Here's a yacht popping out @ La Nap as I,am coming in ! -never looked,just shot out -(there's a thread about MoBo vs Yachts --re wake and general etiquette -I,ll keep Schum )

La Napoule is the last really big marina W of Cannes (discounting La Rague ) It has a row of 50-60M berths ,but no where near as big as Antibes which I would say is the epicentre of Med Super Yachying .
It's less built up than Antibes ,more village ,less city .
Marina is run on a shareholder basis ,we have AGM, and things -proposals are voted on. So one feels you can have a say in the running .Examples are going green , bins , flower planters, CCTV and security ,It's all vertually locked up at night with a guard on the main gate + dog handlers doing the rounds .Recently we have systematicy raising jetty heights over rhe winter and modernising the power -water -light points again all agreed and put to the vote .
Car parking for berth holders s free ,we pay a fee( calculated by shares held pro rata) for leccy and water -as part of rhe maintenance -so it feels like you can have as much as you want.
All the major boat brands have a dealer there too ,along with restaurants etc -it's 35 mins from NiceAirport car hire .

Busy in the summer -all nationalities - Capitaneries and visitor berth

There's a beach here too the sand is machined every night ,you can see that .Its buoyed off from the marina .
( Those mole feet are my daughters btw)
There's another proposal in the pipe line -the sea deference to the R in the above pic - a few guys want to develope that into 4 x 75 m berths ,for fitting there own 45 M ( want to larger ) to the club to rent out .
They will pay for it all and we may be able offer some more space to boat hire Co,s -to attract tourist and expand the "nautism" -Mayor seems keen .if we can pull that off ,then another lease extension -in return .

 

[PowerYachtBlog]

Aha...!
I guess Deleted User will now understand why the ad for the berth he just bought said something along the lines of...
"Desperate seller, moving to CF to stay as far from PV as possible, bring offers no matter how indecent!"

Mike take this is a compliment from a friend who will miss a friend

 

[MapisM]

Mike take this is a compliment from a friend who will miss a friend

You bet! In fact, I perfectly understand that in terms of accessibility the difference between CF and SoF is huge, for anyone coming from the UK and willing to exploit as mush as possible the somewhat limited time available for boating. :encouragement:
...not to mention that we would run out of tuna PDQ, if all the SoF Brits would move to CF permanently!

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

You bet! In fact, I perfectly understand that in terms of accessibility the difference between CF and SoF is huge, for anyone coming from the UK and willing to exploit as mush as possible the somewhat limited time available for boating. :encouragement:
...not to mention that we would run out of tuna PDQ, if all the SoF Brits would move to CF permanently!

Actually M, the further north we got on our trip and the more crowded with boats it got, the more S and I started to talk about the fact that we will miss CF and Sardinia. Yes for the next few years accessibility is important to us but I'm sure the cruising in SoF will be less interesting

 

[benjenbav]

Actually M, the further north we got on our trip and the more crowded with boats it got, the more S and I started to talk about the fact that we will miss CF and Sardinia. Yes for the next few years accessibility is important to us but I'm sure the cruising in SoF will be less interesting

Mike, We've had a house in the Var since God was in short pants and, although we've never had a boat in the Med, Antibes has long been one of our favourite places. Actually, I have to check myself here, as I have realised that the last time we were at that house was 2012 so perhaps things have changed a bit.

 

[MapisM]

Actually M, the further north we got on our trip and the more crowded with boats it got, the more S and I started to talk about the fact that we will miss CF and Sardinia. Yes for the next few years accessibility is important to us but I'm sure the cruising in SoF will be less interesting

While I completely understand what you are saying, I believe yourself and S will like Antibes anyway, while you'll be there.
It's a lovely place, with just about anything you might think of within easy reach - and a large gang of nice forumites on top!
Sure, you won't have snorkeling spots anywhere near the Mezzaluna caves, but the surrounding cruising grounds do have their attractions.
Besides, I bet that your son will love a place much more lively than CF...
Anyway, you know you can count on us whenever in the future you will want to come back to S Sardinia, maybe with something built in Ameglia! :encouragement:

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Mike, We've had a house in the Var since God was in short pants and, although we've never had a boat in the Med, Antibes has long been one of our favourite places. Actually, I have to check myself here, as I have realised that the last time we were at that house was 2012 so perhaps things have changed a bit.

Well bjb if you do get off your backside to make a visit to SoF make sure a few of we forumites are around for a meet!

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Anyway, you know you can count on us whenever in the future you will want to come back to S Sardinia, maybe with something built in Ameglia! :encouragement:

Yup that would be a good shakedown cruise!

 

[Pinnacle]

maybe with something built in Ameglia! :encouragement:

Oooooooh, a SL?

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Oooooooh, a SL?

Only in my dreams at present and I'd have to convince the missus too because she's now fixated on aft galleys and none of the SLs have that AFAIK