Motor sailing cones.

[blackbird]

Re: Flapping main

I would see it the other way round. Motoring to windward with main up and not drawing, it is not really required or strictly necessary, as it is obvious to all (except possibly the strictest landlubber) that you are not being propelled by sail. However it is prudent in the sense that the regs are being construed that way, especially abroad. It also confirms your understanding of your own obligations under those regs.

The time when it IS both required and necessary is exactly the time when people are least likely to use it - when motorsailing in a tight spot, possibly for a short time and at close quarters, when it is vital that each skipper knows how others will behave. I nearly got into problems in Harwich Harbour once when I forgot to fold the cone (we have one of those "umbrella" jobs which can be controlled from the cockpit) after switching off the engine. I was on "sail/sail" rules but other skippers thought I was going to behave as a power boat. This, of course, illustrates the issue in reverse. Not showing the cone whilst motorsailing would have been equally confusing.

 

[Guest]

Re: Flapping main

On yours and my second point, I agree with you there, I wasnt very clear in my explanation. When I put "the situation doesn't affect other vessels", I meant because there aren't any in sight!!


Cheers

The Lash

 

[ccscott49]

Re: Flapping main

Where oh! where can I het one of those folding thingies, it would save a lot of hassle on my motorsailer!

 

[oldharry]

Re: Flapping main

Chichester harbour Guide 2002, P18 'A vessel under power and sail is a power driven vessel and must display a black cone pointing downwards'

I have not actually counted the number of power sailing boats doing this but at a guess I would think at least half of us comply.

 

[MedMan]

Re: Flapping main

You have an interesting interpretation of the rules which has sent me thinking. However, I believe that you have got it wrong. The rule says:

(e) A vessel proceeding under sail when also being propelled by machinery shall exhibit forward where it can best be seen a conical shape, apex downwards


The important word here is 'proceeding' - there is nothing about whether the sail is drawing or not. If you think about it, your interpretation would lead to total chaos as a yacht with one or more sails up and engine running in gear would, according to you, alternate between being a boat under sail and a boat under power every time she luffed up a bit too much. How is the poor old vessel off your port beam supposed to react to that?

I was taught, and I still believe, that if you have one or more sails up, drawing or not, you are 'under sail' - a very literal interpetration of the words. If you have your engine running and in gear you are 'under power.' If you have both, you must show a cone. End of story.

 

[blackbird]

Never fear

My belief is the same as yours. Avoid confusion by using the cone. As I said - the main thing is to advertise your intention of behaving like a powerboat as far as the regs are concerned. I think the current tendency to dismiss the need for a cone is thoughtless and unseamanlike.

However, if we are splitting hairs, how about the word "also". This does imply that it is being propelled by something else, as well as machinery. If the literal meaning is applied, what about a ketch or yawl with only a mizzen set? Or a fishing boat with a steadying sail? I do not believe the people who drafted the regs really envisaged the situation which now pertains - lots of sailing yachts proceeding under power with a mainsail set and sheeted hard, or flapping. Then, sailing yachts were more likely to sail, with the occasional boost from their small auxiliaries. Hence the ambiguity.

There are all sorts of excuses not to use the cone - "it can't be seen"; "it's obvious I'm under power" etc. but they mostly boil down to laziness.

 

[snooks]

Re: Flapping main

In light winds, and yer motorsailing, if you leave the main up it will give you stability by stopping you rolling, especially if there is a swell running with no wind

It shouldn't flap too much if you harden the mainsheet. Get rid of the genoa and there's a nice big space to put yer cone up :-D

 

[sailbadthesinner]

On my day skipper
we gently persisted on being shown how to use the spinnaker
There was no wind on the last day
so ourinstructer got all the gubbins out still grumbling good naturedly that he hated the damn things

the only way to deploy it was to go backwards under engine at about 3 knots
AND we put the cone up
we saw a very confused Caledonian McBrae go past.

The last boat i chartered the cone and the ball were still in the wrapping
and they were not new. the packets were at the bottom of a locker and had been there a long time.

...It was like that when i found it!

 

[CliveG]

Yes it was just the same with the last 2 yachts we chartered.

1st a 2 year old Bav 37 cone and ball still in the wrappers.
2nd a 1970's S&S the cone was as clean as a whistle and had obviously not been used.

We where towing a mackerel feather so my Day Shipper crew decided that we should show a fishing day mark!
He made it by fixing the 2 halves of the cone together point to point and hoisting them to the crosstrees.

CliveG

 

[peterb]

Rule 3 (d):

The term "vessel engaged in fishing" means any vessel fishing with nets, lines, trawls or other apparatus which restrict manoeuvrability, but does not include a vessel fishing with trolling lines or other fishing apparatus which do not restrict manoeuvrability.

Did your mackerel feather prevent you from manoeuvring as required by the regulations?

 

[vyv_cox]

Re: Flapping main

My sails cost far too much to be used as some sort of stabiliser. If they are not being used to some value I take them down and, on the rare occasions when the sun is shining brightly, put the cover on as well. :~)

 

[Viking]

I havent seen either Motor sailing cones or anchor balls since Ive been here in Norway. On boats or in chandlerys. I dont see many small fishing boats with 'basket' signals either.

 

[CliveG]

Marc.

O-ar. The shoal of mackerel hanging on the end were preventing us from tacking due to the unequal strain on the port quarter. ;-).

By gum they were good eating!

 

[peterb]

The basket signal became obsolete in 1995. Since then the only day shape for fishing boats has been two cones point-to-point.

 

[oldharry]

..... left permanently rigged even when hauled out for maintenance, a bit like the dive boats roaring past at 20kts with the 'Diver Down' flag flying bravely.
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by oldharry on 07/08/2002 10:14 (server time).</FONT></P>