Motor boat search

gordmac said:
Botnia or Nordstar if you want a bit of speed?
Boats for sale are scarce at the moment.
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Boats are indeed scarce at the moment, with more than a few secondhand boats over-priced.

The Botnia and NordStar ranges are good - with some reservations, depending on size. They’re also very expensive...

We went on a NordStar 28 last week. Well-fitted, but the saloon or pilot house is cramped because it’s so narrow (an understandable compromise in order to have much wider side decks). Also, the head was very cramped too (this was a surprise). Compared to a MF 895, for example, the use of space (volume) on a NordStar 28 is lacking. However, they are excellent offshore cruising boats. (The saloon on the NordStar 31 is only a few centimetres wider than the 28.)
 
The new MF 895 that we went out on for a test drive yesterday was surprisingly well-thought out for a boat of its size. Nowhere did it feel cramped. And the uncomplicated, no frills interior means easy maintenance. An example of function over style, which on a boat is, for us, a preference; neither my wife or I want to spend our lives looking after acres of teak! However, how would she handle in a force 7 or 8...?

And there’s also the issue of fuel supply for outboards...
 
oldgit said:
Some detailed research on the debate of outdrives verses shaft drive may well be worth while .
It might assist you in your search and quickly eliminate certain boats from your list.
A quick search of the internet (or this forum) should be more than sufficient.
Petrol boats might be OK for quick trips round the bay and just maybe the odd night out ,but for anything else totally impractical for extended cruising .
Looking at your location and your requirements ................... its Diesel Diesel all the way.
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Unfortunately a ‘quick search of the internet...’ is not ‘more than sufficient’ because the majority, if not all, reviews, reports, etc, etc, are too subjective. Even recognised and supposedly independent boating magazines publish reviews that are subjective by the very simple fact that there are no set criteria against which they are making a value judgement when comparing like-with-like (and often they don’t compare like-with-like). Because of this subjectivity we thought we’d try this forum, but already the inevitable subjectivity is creeping in! That said though, some suggestions have been worth exploring (not the least because we’re not familiar with the names of every boat builder!). In fact some of these suggestions have made us expand our options, which is a positive outcome from using this forum! But where is the boat we seek...???
 
Scala said:
You'd probably be dead. Wildly unsuitable.
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Whilst no one in their right mind would go out in such conditions (even the RN won’t leave port if a force 8 is blowing), the fact remains that you can or could be caught out in the unexpected. Sudden, severe squalls are not unusual. Asking such an extreme question was intended to generate a more than superficial response about the general seaworthiness of the new MF 895. Meanwhile our search continues...
 
superheat6k said:
Corvette 32 or 320.

Older 32 from ~ £45k to newer 320 ~ £110 - 150 k

Meets all your requirements. Generally twin diesel inboards on shafts. There is an older one for sale in Largs presently.
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Corvette 320 looks very interesting, except for that ugly flybridge! Certainly has the internal volume we’d like...
 
Coriolanus said:
Whilst no one in their right mind would go out in such conditions (even the RN won’t leave port if a force 8 is blowing), the fact remains that you can or could be caught out in the unexpected. Sudden, severe squalls are not unusual. Asking such an extreme question was intended to generate a more than superficial response about the general seaworthiness of the new MF 895. Meanwhile our search continues...
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Honestly if you are seriously contemplating picking a cruising motor boat that can cope with F8s then you need something other than an MF or its ilk. Your current motor sailer (not that I know what it is) is quite possibly much more suitable for those conditons than any 30' planing powerboat.
 
Scala said:
Honestly if you are seriously contemplating picking a cruising motor boat that can cope with F8s then you need something other than an MF or its ilk. Your current motor sailer (not that I know what it is) is quite possibly much more suitable for those conditons than any 30' planing powerboat.
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If you read what I wrote (and explained), you‘ll understand that in asking such an extreme question, I was trying to get more about the general seaworthiness of the MF 895. In no way did I suggest that we‘re looking for a boat that will cope safely in a force 7 or 8.

We’ve intentionally not specified our budget because, as with yacht brokers and estate agents, as soon as you mention a maximum people will try and sell you a boat that‘s at your maximum, rather than look at your needs criteria. And specifying a maximum budget immediately invites the inevitable subjectivity!

As for our current boat, we have a ketch-rigged Fisher motorsailer. She looks good and is well-fitted out. However, my wife, who enjoys boating, is not interested in sails and rigging - she was brought up on power boats!
 
Scala said:
You're rejecting suggestions made by others on the grounds of budget but haven't suggested what your ££ range might be.
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...because we’re not interested in people suggesting boats simply because they cost what our our maximum budget is! Simples! (Also, there are clues as to the price range in the original post that opened this thread!)
 
As you come from a more / sailing style background the majority of those who come to the power side go for Nimbus, I think they are attracted to the similiarity of the interiors, they have vessels from 28 ft all the way to the big stuff and all are semi displacement and planning as are the aquastar, which might be worth a look all good sea boats too.
Half the fun is of course looking ! If you can find anything decent on the market at the moment :(
 
Coriolanus said:
...because we’re not interested in people suggesting boats simply because they cost what our our maximum budget is! Simples! (Also, there are clues as to the price range in the original post that opened this thread!)
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Well, maybe fair enough although I'm not sure that's what would happen. Only you know what's right for you. If you like the Fisher then maybe a more trad style might appeal (and likely to be more seaworthy too).

You could try a wide search for boats in your price range on a site like Yacht World. Pick out the ones you like the look of,

2005 (Power) Boats For Sale United Kingdom
 
Six years ago I came on to this forum when we wanted to change from our first boat, a Westerly Konsort Duo motor sailer, to a motor boat. The advice we received was invaluable. Unfortunately the archive doesn't seem to have kept our thread. We ended up deciding that we wanted to use the first part of our retirement to do as much boating as possible, as safely and in as much comfort as possible, and the budget ended up being thrown in the bin. We plundered the pension and borrowed money to get the boat we wanted and have never regretted it for one moment. Our second boat cost almost exactly ten times as much as our first boat and even now is worth more than our house. In fact in the current market the boat is worth more than we paid for it and our broker has approached us twice in the last few months saying they have a queue of potential buyers .
To answer your questions based on our experience:
  • Outboard or inboard engine/s? Pros and cons? Inboard, shaft drive, diesel. No question, simply because of fuel availability and maintenance which is mostly DIY and therefore economical particularly if the engine/s is/are based on standard blocks.
  • Planing, semi-displacement, etc? Pros and cons? As you know, there are 3 choices, full displacement like your Fisher (and our boat), semi-displacement, and planing. The choice depends on how fast you want to go. Do you want to make day trips of 20 - 30 miles each way? Do you ever want to get back home in a hurry? Also depends on whether fuel cost is a big issue or not. Our boat is full displacement like your Fisher. It will cruise at 7 knots and can nearly do 9 knots, so our boat is a slow boat, but for the cruising we do it simply doesn't matter. And we spend more on fuel to get to the boat than we do in the boat. We never give a thought to fuel costs.
  • Minimum 4 berths in 2 cabins (ideally boat must be suitable for at least five consecutive days onboard). For lengthy stays there's a lot more to think about than cabins. Will you need a generator? Do you want a decent size galley and do you want it buried in the bowels of the boat or up high so the cook can see the view? Do you want a washing machine? How big do you want your water tanks? A proper walk-in shower is a HUGE bonus. How do you feel about stability at anchor - do you want flopper stoppers?
  • Boat will be based on the Firth of Clyde (our primary cruising area), so comfort and stability are of importance! Your experience with the Fisher will I'm sure be enough for you to judge whether particular boats tick the comfort and stability boxes. Trust your own judgement.
I suggest your first decision should be the hull form. Make a firm decision about that and it will narrow the search a lot. I wouldn't want to suggest particular boats until we know whether you want full displacement, semi, or planing.
 
TwoHooter said:
Six years ago I came on to this forum when we wanted to change from our first boat, a Westerly Konsort Duo motor sailer, to a motor boat. The advice we received was invaluable. Unfortunately the archive doesn't seem to have kept our thread. We ended up deciding that we wanted to use the first part of our retirement to do as much boating as possible, as safely and in as much comfort as possible, and the budget ended up being thrown in the bin. We plundered the pension and borrowed money to get the boat we wanted and have never regretted it for one moment. Our second boat cost almost exactly ten times as much as our first boat and even now is worth more than our house. In fact in the current market the boat is worth more than we paid for it and our broker has approached us twice in the last few months saying they have a queue of potential buyers .
To answer your questions based on our experience:
  • Outboard or inboard engine/s? Pros and cons? Inboard, shaft drive, diesel. No question, simply because of fuel availability and maintenance which is mostly DIY and therefore economical particularly if the engine/s is/are based on standard blocks.
  • Planing, semi-displacement, etc? Pros and cons? As you know, there are 3 choices, full displacement like your Fisher (and our boat), semi-displacement, and planing. The choice depends on how fast you want to go. Do you want to make day trips of 20 - 30 miles each way? Do you ever want to get back home in a hurry? Also depends on whether fuel cost is a big issue or not. Our boat is full displacement like your Fisher. It will cruise at 7 knots and can nearly do 9 knots, so our boat is a slow boat, but for the cruising we do it simply doesn't matter. And we spend more on fuel to get to the boat than we do in the boat. We never give a thought to fuel costs.
  • Minimum 4 berths in 2 cabins (ideally boat must be suitable for at least five consecutive days onboard). For lengthy stays there's a lot more to think about than cabins. Will you need a generator? Do you want a decent size galley and do you want it buried in the bowels of the boat or up high so the cook can see the view? Do you want a washing machine? How big do you want your water tanks? A proper walk-in shower is a HUGE bonus. How do you feel about stability at anchor - do you want flopper stoppers?
  • Boat will be based on the Firth of Clyde (our primary cruising area), so comfort and stability are of importance! Your experience with the Fisher will I'm sure be enough for you to judge whether particular boats tick the comfort and stability boxes. Trust your own judgement.
I suggest your first decision should be the hull form. Make a firm decision about that and it will narrow the search a lot. I wouldn't want to suggest particular boats until we know whether you want full displacement, semi, or planing.
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Thank you very much for the comprehensive reply; very useful and informative. I will probably reply in more detail later. In the meantime, and specifically regarding hull form, our prerequisites are safety and seaworthiness over speed. However, we would like a little more speed! Currently we’re limited to 5 knots maximum (under power). We’d like the option to double that, or at least achieve say 8 knots, with reserves. Cruising at 22 knots plus is not our style (although having such available speeds does have advantages). We would prefer nothing longer than 35’.
 
Scala said:
Well, maybe fair enough although I'm not sure that's what would happen. Only you know what's right for you. If you like the Fisher then maybe a more trad style might appeal (and likely to be more seaworthy too).

You could try a wide search for boats in your price range on a site like Yacht World. Pick out the ones you like the look of,

2005 (Power) Boats For Sale United Kingdom
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Thanks for the link. Will check it out.
 
Coriolanus said:
... We’d like the option to double that, or at least achieve say 8 knots, with reserves. Cruising at 22 knots plus is not our style (although having such available speeds does have advantages). We would prefer nothing longer than 35’.
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As you probably know, fully displacement hull forms have a maximum theoretical hull speed; in knots this is = 1.35 x the square root of the waterline length in feet. For a 35' LOA displacement boat you might have a 30' WLL so that would give you a max of 7.4 kts.

Aiming for 8kt plus reserves cruising speed means you need a bigger boat if it's going to a displacement form, or you need to go for semi-displacement. To get 11 kts in a displacement boat needs a WLL of about 64' - probably not what you had in mind, which is why the semi-Ds became popular.

Not a lot to choose from though.
 
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I’d be after a good used nimbus, sealine s34 or sealine sc29. Probably the latter...but rare to the market.
 
Scala said:
As you probably know, fully displacement hull forms have a maximum theoretical hull speed; in knots this is = 1.35 x the square root of the waterline length in feet. For a 35' LOA displacement boat you might have a 30' WLL so that would give you a max of 7.4 kts.
Aiming for 8kt plus reserves cruising speed means you need a bigger boat if it's going to a displacement form, or you need to go for semi-displacement. To get 11 kts in a displacement boat needs a WLL of about 64' - probably not what you had in mind, which is why the semi-Ds became popular.
Not a lot to choose from though.
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Correct, and the formula does work in real life. Which is why Coriolanus has to make a fundamental choice between four options:
  1. Full displacement and accept the hull speed, but enjoy the lowest possible fuel consumption per hour (often it's also the lowest possible fuel consumption per mile)
  2. Semi-displacement which will give a higher maximum speed at the expense of massively increased fuel consumption
  3. Planing which gives the highest possible speed, but possibly less fuel per mile than semi-displacement (there's a lot of doubtful data out there!)
  4. Ignore speed and fuel consumption, and choose the boat which best fits other criteria such as style, internal layout, etc.
Any of these choices is valid. But one does have to make a choice because you can't have all 4 unless you buy 4 boats!

It can't be said too often: all boats are a compromise. There is no such thing as a perfect boat. If one wants to make a sound choice then it's essential to define what one wants, prioritise those wants, accept that you can't have everything, and choose accordingly.

If Coriolanus is finding this useful may I suggest that it's time to review what is wanted. Concentrate on what you want to do with the boat, and work from there. Be honest with yourself. What will you actually do with the boat when you've bought it?
 
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Thing about a planing (and semi displacement) is you can still go at hull speed if you want to but you have the option of making progress that isn't there with a displacement boat.
 
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