More on Spanish Matriculation Tax

Hurricane

Hurricane

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Apologies if this is duplicated.
James_France pointed this out recently on another forum but I dont think its been posted here yet.

http://www.ybw.com/auto/newsdesk/20090511164013mbynews.html

Seems that there is to be an article in the next MBY as well.

Some crutial points that I've picked out from the news are:-

[ QUOTE ]
If a vessel is located permanently in Spain or for more than 183 days a year, the report states, this fact alone does not determine an obligation to register it in Spain.

So crucially a vessel, whose owner is not a resident and does not have business premises in Spain, can remain in Spanish waters without the need to pay the Special Tax.

[/ QUOTE ]

and

[ QUOTE ]
1) The ownership of or navigation in Spanish waters of a leisure boat by non-residents does not generate the obligation to pay the Special Tax.

2) The application of the Special Tax does not depend on the period of time that vessels are in Spanish waters; it does depend on the owner or user.

[/ QUOTE ]


But the report also states that if you do, indeed, need to register for tax in Spain as a tax resident then, as long as the boat was bought outside Spain before you became a tax resident, then you probably wont have to pay the tax. In other words, if the boat comes with you to Spain as you become resident, the tax wont be chargeable - now this I didnt know.
 
Good timing Hurricane. yet again!!!

I have spent all day in the Local Customs office and I have a not so nice Pice of paper saying that I can not move my boat. Untill the authorities in Palma decide wether they want to fine me charge Matriculation or both. I have a lawyer and also an historia on the case but I must say I am very concerned. Nobody seems to know the rules and worse the customs in Palma say they had a directive only a fourtnight ago to check out vessels as a priority.

My situation has been made worse as the boat is a charter vessel and also an RYA training vessel so must remain on British flag. Where I go from here I dont know but it don't look good at the moment. I am told that I am the first in Menorca purely due to the amount of advertising I do. ( I stood out both on the internet and local advertising) but the authorities here ensure me that they will be checking out every vessel which is not on Spanish registration.

My situation is as follows if anybody can help.

British registered boat berthed in Balearics

34' Cranchi Zaffiro with Balearics charter licence since 2005 - surveyed by by both YDSA and the Spanish authorities. I hold a full charter licence and have permisions to opperate charter vessels and also run a school in the Balearics. They have had no problem taking my money for all the licensing special insurances etc etc since 2005 and at no point in the set up or the ongoing renuals of licenses have I ever been asked with regard to Matriculation. The boat is in Mahon perminent but is only used in season as I go home to UK winter months. I pay tax here on any income made in Spain and have paid up autonimos etc all up to date. I go on the backa each year at the end of the season and the boat is de comissioned. I can clearly demonstrate that I live less than 183 days in Spain. (Only 19 days so far this year)

The most important thing today is being polite has helped and secondly there is a certificate of exemption from Matriculation which they say I should have aplied for however the company I use as advisors and who have managed my licensing since 2005 say they have not applied for exemption certs for the last 20 years. As they manage a great deal of charter vessels out of Palma this has caused a big reaction in their office.

Sorry for any spelling mistakes etc but had a very hard and trying day. Please anybody who can help please do.
 
Have a look at the similarly titled thread currently running on "Liveaboard". That seems to suggest you might be due to pay the tax as you are running a business (ie chartering).
 
Gosh, sorry to hear all that GSkip. The crucial thing missing from your post is a description of your legal structure. Do you operate your business thru a limited company (in which case, which country is it incorporated in?) and is the Cranchi owned by that company and are all the licences in the name of that company? Or is it all in your name personally? The only way to fix this is to get precise information on all that. Good luck anyway
 
Wow GSkip
This is a bit of a blow.

After reading the MBY article I did a bit of googling on providing a residence certificate. All I could find was someone who said that HMRC dont now do a "to whom it may concern" certificate. However, it did imply that HMRC are prepared to inform other countries that you are a UK tax resident.

I dont think this helps you much because you are chartering and running a school but it may help with your personal status if you contact HMRC.

Sorry, I'm not an expert - just pointing out things that I've read.
 
That's all correct Hurricane. You say "it did imply that HMRC are prepared to inform other countries that you are a UK tax resident". The means by which this is done is that HMRC do certify UK residency to another country where a tax treaty is involved, but not otherwise. So it's often sensible to engineer a claim under the Sp/UK tax treaty, and get your UK residence certified that way. Alas there is a current 16week turnaround at the HMRC office in Nottingham that does these...

This is a potential red herring here though. The crucial fact to establish as I said above is whether we're talking about GSkip or a company owned by GSkip, cos they're separate things (in law, at least...)
 
Charter boats stopped today in Menorca. As previously said my boat was Precinto two days ago and the customs true to their word have continued on to stop and do the same to every other charter boat in Menorca. This is to say that they have a lst of over 52 companies from dive boats to charter boats schools etc. Mallorca has been hit even harder and it is now difficult to find a Marine lawyer who is not tied up with all this.

The charter companies in Mallorca are expecting that Portals and Palma will be hit within a few days. I tried to find an alternative charter vessel for my clients arriving Sunday but as soon as I could find a suitable vessel they were Precinto as well.

Seems that there is an even worse side to this in that they also say that anybody with a residencia in Spain can not drive a boat with a British flag ( Thankfully I am not a resident).

I have a friend here who lives on his boat and also runs day charters from the same boat he is a Spanish resident. He finds himself in a situation that due to holding a charter licence he can not live on his boat anymore neither can he run his business. nor does his YM cover him to drive the boat.

The whole port lituraly went down this afternoon as companies realised that the staff they emloyed could no longer move a boat if they were resident. Same with skippers who were resident in spain the documentation from the authorities would sugest that they can not drive a British flaged vessel. I have been intouch with the RYA today to try and seek any form of help but it would seem they are not at all interested in their members in Spanish waters, I find this a shame as I have personaly signed up at least 400 members.

Anybody help?
 
Blimey GSkip, it's getting worse.

First point is, and I'm repeating what i said above, it matters hugely whether you are running your buiness as an individual or as a comopany. Tax requires absolute precision on legal structures. Can't help on the basic problem without that information.

On the claim that Spanish residents cannot drive a british flagged boat, that seems like someone has misinterpted what they're saying. A spanish resident may well be compelled to flag any boat he owns with the Spanish flag, but that is quite different from his being prohibited from driving a British flagged boat (of which he isn't the owner). There is certianly no spanish tax law containing such a prohibition as it would be in clear contravention of pretty much all 4 of the EU 4 freedoms. So i suspect the tax folks have said something and everyone has simply misinterpreted it. Quite seriously, if all the local companies think their spanish resident staff can't drive british flagged boats (not owned by those staff) they must surely have got the wrong end of the stick

Someone has to get clarity on precisely, I mean precisely, what the spanish tax officials are saying you can't do. They will not win (under EU law) if they say (for example) that a UK-incorporated company owning a red ensign boat in Spanish waters may not have that boat driven by a spanish resident employee. That's utterly in contravention of the Freedom of establishment, for starters.

Very best of luck to you in sorting this out and sorry to hear of such hassles. I will be interested to hear more as this unfolds. I'm supposed to be arriving in Mahon weekend after this one - blimey!
 
"Seems that there is an even worse side to this in that they also say that anybody with a residencia in Spain can not drive a boat with a British flag ( Thankfully I am not a resident)."


they can but only once the matriculation on that vesel as been paid.
 
On the claim that Spanish residents cannot drive a british flagged boat, that seems like someone has misinterpted what they're saying. A spanish resident may well be compelled to flag any boat he owns with the Spanish flag, but that is quite different from his being prohibited from driving a British flagged boat (of which he isn't the owner). There is certianly no spanish tax law containing such a prohibition as it would be in clear contravention of pretty much all 4 of the EU 4 freedoms. So i suspect the tax folks have said something and everyone has simply misinterpreted it.

Quite seriously, if all the local companies think their spanish resident staff can't drive british flagged boats (not owned by those staff) they must surely have got the wrong end of the stick
_____________________________________________________________

jfm last paragraph especially, tis a fact Marina Marbella in Banus have had many of their staff stopped by the Guardia when driving a foreign flagged boat of which they handle many obviuosly, they check their residencial status and if proved Spanish res, they are in trouble.


We had our main school boat "precinto" i.e. sealed with a notice, all because one of our instructors produced naively his residencia when booking the boat in for the night in a Spanish marina. Had he procuded his passport would not have happened. Only once the Matriculation tax was paid could any of us (all residents) then skipper it again.

Hum just think of all those British skippers on large yachts that live on either the yacht or land locally all year round, they are residents.
 
Such a shame. I thought that I would do a bit of boating int he med but frankly, the spanish can poke it, and any money I might have brought with me.

I cant see why they are doing this - surely any short term revenue gain is going to be cancelled out by long term harm.

Also, I assume there are French/Italain/Dutch/German charter boats operating out of Spain and the Islands. Be interesting to know if the same rules are being applied to them as well, or is them more eveidence of strong anti-british sentiment from our EU 'Partners'.
 
Say you have a boat in Spain UK flagged but live in the UK and are definately not a resident in Spain. Whilst in your holiday home you get freindly with a Spanish neighbour, lets call him pedro for argument,

When you go back to the UK you throw him the keys and say " hey Pedro old mate give her a spin now and then while Im gone"

Sure says Pedro leaves the Marina gets a tug from the Guardia they see he is Spanish, boat is foreign flagged they Precinto the boat and denounce Pedro. His name is first on the Precinto they come after him first as he committed the offence.

Poor Pedro comes cap in hand to you and you cough up
 
Thnaks. Interesting. I dont doubt your observatiosn but I still find there is still a lack of precision here. Let's say there is a boat and a spanish resident drives it. The tax police precinto it. What exactly is their precise legal position?

1. Are they saying the fact that a Sp resident has driven the boat has CAUSED it to become liable to matric, when previously it wasn't?

2. Are they saying the boat is liable to matric anyway, in which case the fact is was driven by a Sp resident is red herring?

3. Are they saying there is a general law saying that Sp residents are prohibited from driving non Sp flagged boats except those on which matric has been paid, and that the fine for contravention of that law is that a fine equal to the matric tax is payable, even though the boat isn't actually liable for matric at all?

4. Something else - what exactly?

1,2,3,4 are different things and some are unlawful under EU law. But it would be good if someone dealing with this (the lawyers?) could be precise about what exactly is being argued about here.

The recent statemnt they put out described the circs in which a boat is liable to matric and it had nothing to do with the residence of the driver and much to do with residence of the owner. How come all of a sudden the residence of the driver has become a big issue? Still feels very imprecise to me... I'd be yelling at the lawyers to define the problem at this stage.
 
But that means para 1 of my other post applies. They are saying that the fact Pedro drove the boat CAUSED matric to become payable. 100% in contravention of their official statement on matric tax the other day and unlawful (under EU law). Also challengeable under human rights

But that's in contrast to your post above that one, in which you said (I think) that Spanish residents (but not Sp non residents) were prohibited from driving the boat till the tax was paid, ie that the very act of driving the boat was an offence in and of itself.

As I say, it's all very imprecise. I still don't understnad what their point is.

I'm just amazed the country is run at local level like a 3rd world dictatorship
 
[ QUOTE ]
Say you have a boat in Spain UK flagged but live in the UK and are definately not a resident in Spain. Whilst in your holiday home you get freindly with a Spanish neighbour, lets call him pedro for argument,

When you go back to the UK you throw him the keys and say " hey Pedro old mate give her a spin now and then while Im gone"

[/ QUOTE ]
This is almost what I'm doing, Clive.
My Pedro only runs the engines up and gives the props a spin though - is this, technically, skippering the boat?
 
[ QUOTE ]
Such a shame. I thought that I would do a bit of boating int he med but frankly, the spanish can poke it, and any money I might have brought with me.


[/ QUOTE ]
Dont give up on the idea yet, Jez.

At the moment, they havent YET targeted us hobby boaters - i.e. those who arent chartering and who dont stay more than 183 days in Spain.
 
1. Are they saying the fact that a Sp resident has driven the boat has CAUSED it to become liable to matric, when previously it wasn't?

YES

2. Are they saying the boat is liable to matric anyway, NO in which case the fact is was driven by a Sp resident is red herring?

NO not a red herring the boat became laible to Mat tax only becasue the Spainsh guy drove it HE is the one that should pay cos he broke the law,

3. Are they saying there is a general law saying that Sp residents are prohibited from driving non Sp flagged boats except those on which matric has been paid, and that the fine for contravention of that law is that a fine equal to the matric tax is payable, even though the boat isn't actually liable for matric at all?

YES its payable by the Spanish guy who has been denounced
 
My Pedro only runs the engines up and gives the props a spin though - is this, technically, skippering the boat?


No Mike that is deemed maintainence best you have a contract with him to do so.
The boats still in the Marina not at sea.
 
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