More containers lost off Isle of Wight

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lustyd said:
I said “have changed very little”. What’s your problem?
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I don't have a problem except with your vague assertions and your claim about regs being little changed from the days of wooden ships. However you are unable to say what these regs are in respect of shipping containers and what has or has not changed. I am confused as the many regulatory framework for containerised shipping did not come into effect until 1977 and has been constantly updated as the industry has grown and changed. I have provided you with a link to a summary of the international bodies involved so that you can gain some understanding not only about the industry but also as to why most of what you post is either untrue or nonsense.
 
Tranona said:
I don't have a problem except with your vague assertions and your claim about regs being little changed from the days of wooden ships. However you are unable to say what these regs are in respect of shipping containers and what has or has not changed. I am confused as the many regulatory framework for containerised shipping did not come into effect until 1977 and has been constantly updated as the industry has grown and changed. I have provided you with a link to a summary of the international bodies involved so that you can gain some understanding not only about the industry but also as to why most of what you post is either untrue or nonsense.
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Yes you’ve done a lot of waffling. Your posts are always needlessly long and usually full of irrelevant stuff. If you understood the system you’d have understood my posts. You didn’t and don’t so I’m unsure why you’re persevering in insisting it’s impossible to modernise a 200+year old system. You clearly lack vision, experience, and capability.
 
lustyd said:
Not long ago, the best rocket scientists in the world said we couldn’t land a rocket on a barge. The unimaginative always find it easy to say things can’t be done and can’t change while others go about proving them wrong. Nobody remembers the people without vision.

It’s not rocket science to tow a floating container from Bembridge on a calm day. That anyone would say it’s impossible says a lot about their attitude in life.
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The key phrase there is 'A Calm Day'! The RN used to have buoy jumpers for mooring. Perhaps you should set up an Agency to supply 'Container Jumpers' to allow connecting the tow to the Tug?
 
SaltyC said:
The key phrase there is 'A Calm Day'! The RN used to have buoy jumpers for mooring. Perhaps you should set up an Agency to supply 'Container Jumpers' to allow connecting the tow to the Tug?
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There have been many calm days since each went in and before they sank, usually within 24 hours.
 
I used to work in the diving industry. Offshore lifting things in and out of the water was my job. Or rather engineering lifts in and out of water. Lifting out of water is a lot more difficult. Especially something that has an unknown amount of water in it. Lifting containers without proper spreader beams or lifting frames is a big no no. The corner pockets are designed for a specific loading regime and attachment method. If they are there at all, which might be why the container fell off in the first place. And they certainly aren’t designed for towing with. I don’t know but I imagine most containers on deck will be light, ie empty ( the uk’s biggest export is empty containers) so they are largely worthless beyond scrap value. There is no economic driver to recover empty containers. Especially when you look at the size of crane (and vessel big enough to carry it) needed to lift a 40’ box half full of water.


Edit:
A 40’ box half full of water is more than the gross weight of the container so lifting it by the corners would need careful checking and might not be possible, especially when dynamics are considered.
 
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boomerangben said:
I used to work in the diving industry. Offshore lifting things in and out of the water was my job. Or rather engineering lifts in and out of water. Lifting out of water is a lot more difficult. Especially something that has an unknown amount of water in it. Lifting containers without proper spreader beams or lifting frames is a big no no. The corner pockets are designed for a specific loading regime and attachment method. If they are there at all, which might be why the container fell off in the first place. And they certainly aren’t designed for towing with. I don’t know but I imagine most containers on deck will be light, ie empty ( the uk’s biggest export is empty containers) so they are largely worthless beyond scrap value. There is no economic driver to recover empty containers. Especially when you look at the size of crane (and vessel big enough to carry it) needed to lift a 40’ box half full of water.


Edit:
A 40’ box half full of water is more than the gross weight of the container so lifting it by the corners would need careful checking and might not be possible, especially when dynamics are considered.
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Surely if they were serious about a container recovery system they would not phaff about trying to connect the corner brackets.
A couple of weighted slings as used for boat lifts, either with a longitudinal spreader bar or even a net, would surely be easier to slide underneath to lift.
If there was a will - and a payer - the Dutch salvage guys would have a workable system in 48 hours.
 
Harp
dunedin said:
Surely if they were serious about a container recovery system they would not phaff about trying to connect the corner brackets.
A couple of weighted slings as used for boat lifts, either with a longitudinal spreader bar or even a net, would surely be easier to slide underneath to lift.
If there was a will - and a payer - the Dutch salvage guys would have a workable system in 48 hours.
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Harpoon it with something like a plaster board wall plug on steroids. 😁
 
dunedin said:
Surely if they were serious about a container recovery system they would not phaff about trying to connect the corner brackets.
A couple of weighted slings as used for boat lifts, either with a longitudinal spreader bar or even a net, would surely be easier to slide underneath to lift.
If there was a will - and a payer - the Dutch salvage guys would have a workable system in 48 hours.
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True, and trying to fit a lifting frame might well cause the container to capsize. Still not easy to get the slings in the right place and you don’t know exactly where the centre of gravity is. Lifting boats in slings hasn’t always gone well! But you still need a vessel that’s going to cost 10s of £1000s a day to lift it. I think a better solution is an ROV with a hole cutter and just sink them
 
boomerangben said:
True, and trying to fit a lifting frame might well cause the container to capsize. Still not easy to get the slings in the right place and you don’t know exactly where the centre of gravity is. Lifting boats in slings hasn’t always gone well! But you still need a vessel that’s going to cost 10s of £1000s a day to lift it. I think a better solution is an ROV with a hole cutter and just sink them
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Most containers are not water tight, just weather proof. The ones that float will be full of buoyant materials. A grab device would not be difficult to design which lifts by the base using a scissor action. Heave compensated cranes are common.
 
RunAgroundHard said:
Most containers are not water tight, just weather proof. The ones that float will be full of buoyant materials. A grab device would not be difficult to design which lifts by the base using a scissor action. Heave compensated cranes are common.
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Yes all things are possible with the budget of a large oil company but salvage of containers will be a low budget affair. Whether it should be low budget is a different question of course.
 
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