More containers lost off Isle of Wight

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Tranona said:
Words fail me. Can you try writing in sentences that have some meaning?
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Yes words do seem to fail you. Your reading comprehension seems fairly poor. I’ve been fairly clear, what is it you don’t understand? Our rules were created for simpler times. Have you visited Lloyds? It’s a time capsule right down to the door men. I worked there for a while so have seen much of this system in action. Well, as close to action as it gets…
 
lustyd said:
Yes words do seem to fail you. Your reading comprehension seems fairly poor. I’ve been fairly clear, what is it you don’t understand? Our rules were created for simpler times. Have you visited Lloyds? It’s a time capsule right down to the door men. I worked there for a while so have seen much of this system in action. Well, as close to action as it gets…
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What are you smoking?

What I have difficulty in understanding is ramblings that are often unconnected not only with the subject but with each other. It is often very difficult to find words that you understand because your usual response is a meaningless one liner or you change the subject. What on earth does the fact that you once worked at Lloyds and it has doormen got to do with anything?

How can you possibly say that our "rules were created for simpler times" when they are being constantly revised and tested.
 
Tranona said:
How can you possibly say that our "rules were created for simpler times" when they are being constantly revised and tested.
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I’m struggling to see what part you don’t understand. Fundamentally the rules around losses in shipping were borne of wooden fleets hundreds of years ago and have changed very little. A little man at Lloyds still writes in a big book with a fountain pen when we lose a boat. You clearly have no experience of Lloyds or the system we have.

What’s your aim here? You’re trying to argue against progress and improvement and clearly have no idea about the system or how it came about.
 
Tranona said:
What I have difficulty in understanding is ramblings that are often unconnected not only with the subject but with each other. It is often very difficult to find words that you understand because your usual response is a meaningless one liner or you change the subject. What on earth does the fact that you once worked at Lloyds and it has doormen got to do with anything?
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Be preprepared for the "leave the thinking to the adult in the room" response. I have discovered that there is an Ignore feature on this platform and it works. The only time I know he's posted is if someone else engages with him. It saves a lot of scrolling to get to something worth reading.
 
lustyd said:
You’re on a yachting forum arguing in favour of dumping crap in the sea. I can’t think of another sensible angle to view that from.
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You are an intelligent person - go back and read the whole thread again. Nobody has argued in favour of dumping crap in the sea. People are questioning your assertions that the current system is defective and that your proposed solution is as simple as you claim. Everyone wants fewer containers in the sea and everyone wants the impact of those which do end up there minimised. However you have alleged that anyone who doesn’t agree with your beliefs on how that is achieved has some vested interest. Quite odd.
 
lustyd said:
If they’re floating any tug in the country could tow one. Do you disagree?
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how are you planning to fasten a suitable tow line to a container bouncing and rolling around at sea which has no cleats or bollards to secure it to? Then when you eventually drag them back one at a time to the dock you need to some how rig lifting slings onto the crane to get it out. Salvage towing is a specialist job with extra risks involved. Personally I can’t see how the merits of stopping bananas or baby milk from ending up on a beach (and being cleared up and taken to the same landfill) justify the risks involved.
 
ylop said:
how are you planning to fasten a suitable tow line to a container bouncing and rolling around at sea which has no cleats or bollards to secure it to? Then when you eventually drag them back one at a time to the dock you need to some how rig lifting slings onto the crane to get it out. Salvage towing is a specialist job with extra risks involved. Personally I can’t see how the merits of stopping bananas or baby milk from ending up on a beach (and being cleared up and taken to the same landfill) justify the risks involved.
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Containers have plenty of securing points. Have you ever seen one? I’ve not suggested doing it the moment they fall in, the often float for weeks or months.

Try not to be so dismissive of change and progress, it’s unhelpful and makes you seem negative and closed minded.
 
lustyd said:
Containers have plenty of securing points. Have you ever seen one?
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I certainly have seen them. The “lashing points” are intentionally recessed - no way you are hooking them from the deck of a moving tug.
lustyd said:
I’ve not suggested doing it the moment they fall in, the often float for weeks or months
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But that’s exactly what you were suggesting - that containers which washed ashore a couple of days later should not have been left but retrieved. Where, in UK waters has a container knowingly been lost and still been bobbing around months later presenting an environmental and shipping hazard? If it was within a Harbour Authority area it probably would have been removed. If it was easy to do elsewhere then SOSREP may well have intervened. Once again you are inventing a problem that doesn’t really exist.
lustyd said:
Try not to be so dismissive of change and progress, it’s unhelpful and makes you seem negative and closed minded.
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Not at all - someone shows me a video of a safe recovery of multiple containers (they don’t usually fall off one at a time) being recovered in the sort of seas that make containers fall off, with equipment found in most ports around the country and I’ll be all ears. Until then I’m going to claim it’s fantasy. Refusing to consider that as an IT specialist you might not be the person government would turn to for advice of salvage operations or environmental precautions is comical. BTW I’m also not a salvage expert - so happy for someone who is to tell me that they easily pluck lost containers from the sea - that’s being open minded.
 
lustyd said:
I’m struggling to see what part you don’t understand. Fundamentally the rules around losses in shipping were borne of wooden fleets hundreds of years ago and have changed very little. A little man at Lloyds still writes in a big book with a fountain pen when we lose a boat. You clearly have no experience of Lloyds or the system we have.

What’s your aim here? You’re trying to argue against progress and improvement and clearly have no idea about the system or how it came about.
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You have once again demonstrated your ignorance on this subject. What "rules" are you talking about that have not been updated? Please provide references to any that date from the days of wooden ships that have remained unchanged. BTW Lloyds have little to do with the regulation of shipping. That is done primarily by the IMO and the state government departs responsible for shipping - the MCA in the UK. There are dedicated organisations and standards for shipping containers and their usage. Read this sinay.ai/en/what-are-the-international-rules-and-standards-for-containers/ as a useful summary of the regulatory regime - all established since the late 1960s when containers came in. Long after the demise of wooden commercial ships.

Where have I argued against change? I think I have a pretty good grasp of the regulatory regime for shipping. After all I would have struggled with running a Masters degree programme in Maritime Management without it! Although long retired it is not difficult to get up to speed with the latest developments.
 
capnsensible said:
The soft face of reality, practicality and common sense crashes against the hard wall of unicorns, fluffy bunnies and dreams..... :)
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Not long ago, the best rocket scientists in the world said we couldn’t land a rocket on a barge. The unimaginative always find it easy to say things can’t be done and can’t change while others go about proving them wrong. Nobody remembers the people without vision.

It’s not rocket science to tow a floating container from Bembridge on a calm day. That anyone would say it’s impossible says a lot about their attitude in life.
 
lustyd said:
Not long ago, the best rocket scientists in the world said we couldn’t land a rocket on a barge. The unimaginative always find it easy to say things can’t be done and can’t change while others go about proving them wrong. Nobody remembers the people without vision.

It’s not rocket science to tow a floating container from Bembridge on a calm day. That anyone would say it’s impossible says a lot about their attitude in life.
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You should start a container towing business to address this unmet market need.
 
lustyd said:
Did I say they hadn’t been updated? No, I didn’t.
You must have been a public servant in a previous life, they’re the only people this resistant to change and progress!
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Then you did not mean what you wrote in post#64. Read it again - unless you are unable to understand what you write.
 
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