Mooring rope length

[sogood]

What's the proper length mooring rope that I should use on a 25' Wellcraft Sportsman on a swinging mooring. FWIW the mooring is in a sheltered harbour with nothing else moored in the immediate vicinity. Any "off the shelf" mooring lines seem to start at 8 meters, which seems quite long. I'm ok with swivels, actual rope, spliced knots etc. Just the length I'm curious about.

Any thoughts appreciated.

 

[Robert Wilson]

What a coincidence! I am just about to replace my mooring warps.
Having moored in a very popular Cornish harbour on a choppy night I found the short warps prevalent there (space is at a premium) very uncomfortable.
Snatching and bucking about.
Up here, where my moorings are exposed to some "testing" wind and seas I have much longer warps; probably about 8 - 10 metres. My moorings are like yours, with no other craft anywhere near.

I think that as long as you can reasonably manage is suitable, without encroaching on other craft or rocks etc.

Khamsin weighs-in at around 3.7 tonnes and some years ago endured 36 hours of constant pounding - foredeck under water then rearing mighty high.

Her 9 metre warp held her safe, even though the massive block/ground tackle was overturned. I would not have liked to have been aboard during the pounding, but a short warp would have been very very uncomfortable and may have succumbed to chafe in the bow roller.

I hope that helps.

 

[johnalison]

I don't think that the size or type of boat matters much. I would have one line that left the buoy at a respectful distance, and the second line much looser, so that the pair don't tighten up if a twist develops, which it will. I would only use one line for a lunch stop.

 

[VicS]

What's the proper length mooring rope that I should use on a 25' Wellcraft Sportsman on a swinging mooring. FWIW the mooring is in a sheltered harbour with nothing else moored in the immediate vicinity. Any "off the shelf" mooring lines seem to start at 8 meters, which seems quite long. I'm ok with swivels, actual rope, spliced knots etc. Just the length I'm curious about.

Any thoughts appreciated.

Minimising the swinging circle is an important consideration.
The length of the mooring rope between the deck fairlead and the buoy should be as short as possible. This also ensures that the weight of the boat is directly linked to the riser and limits the amount of snatch to the boat deck fittings.
An excessively long rope will also allow the buoy to rub alongside the hull of the boat and scuff the gel coat. This is often observed and can be reduced by using the correct length of rope as previously described.

 

[Graham376]

If you mean the strops from cleats to buoy, there is no standard "proper length", it's a case of what suits your boat and situation. My two are 3.5m each and are long enough for easy pick-up but not so long that we can override the buoy too much with wind over tide. They suit my boat & buoy but maybe not another.

 

[Robert Wilson]

Minimising the swinging circle is an important consideration.
The length of the mooring rope between the deck fairlead and the buoy should be as short as possible. This also ensures that the weight of the boat is directly linked to the riser and limits the amount of snatch to the boat deck fittings.
An excessively long rope will also allow the buoy to rub alongside the hull of the boat and scuff the gel coat. This is often observed and can be reduced by using the correct length of rope as previously described.

If you mean the strops from cleats to buoy, there is no standard "proper length", it's a case of what suits your boat and situation. My two are 3.5m each and are long enough for easy pick-up but not so long that we can override the buoy too much with wind over tide. They suit my boat & buoy but maybe not another.

Good points, thank you both for reminding me.
As it happens, both my moorings tend not to be affected by "wind against tide", although the one in Loch Ewe does occasionally have the buoy rubbing on the hull.
I think I'll try a shorter warp for that one, as it is usually protected from vicious wind/waves. (Not always, though )

 

[lw395]

If you mean the strops from cleats to buoy, there is no standard "proper length", it's a case of what suits your boat and situation. My two are 3.5m each and are long enough for easy pick-up but not so long that we can override the buoy too much with wind over tide. They suit my boat & buoy but maybe not another.

Having tried a few variations, I think it varies, you have to go with what works on your mooring for your boat.
On a pretty exposed mooring in Portsmouth I found either very long or very short worked OK, and there wasn't the swinging room for 'very long'.
The motion was best with the buoy pulled up un the anchor roller, just don't over do it or the cockpit won't drain....
That was with a heavy riser chain, I think that has some effect.

 

[Robert Wilson]

Minimising the swinging circle is an important consideration.
The length of the mooring rope between the deck fairlead and the buoy should be as short as possible. This also ensures that the weight of the boat is directly linked to the riser and limits the amount of snatch to the boat deck fittings.
An excessively long rope will also allow the buoy to rub alongside the hull of the boat and scuff the gel coat. This is often observed and can be reduced by using the correct length of rope as previously described.

Good morning VicS, and anyone else who might kindly like to contribute :encouragement:
I am re-thinking my warp lengths in view of your comments, in particular the "buoy rubbing against the hull" etc.
Khamsin (Javelin30) has a nice raked stem; about 1.1m - 1.2m

overhang​

, perpendicular from roller to waterline .
A straight-stemmed boat would have almost none.

Assuming no other boats/obstructions in close proximity, what sort of length might you suggest for the two types of stem, please?

For Khamsin and similar styled craft, would 3m from buoy to roller be suitable? Or much shorter. Or say 4metres?
As I posted earlier, I don't sleep aboard on my home moorings, but safety and peace-of-mind are paramount to me.

(Having spent many £ssss and much grunt over two seasons ashore painting the old girl, I don't relish scuffed paintwork, or strain on the bow-fittings in some exceptional wave-action !)

TIA

 

[VicS]

Good morning VicS, and anyone else who might kindly like to contribute :encouragement:

TIA

The "advice" in my earlier post was just an edited version of the " Guide to Using a Swinging Mooring in Chichester Harbour" leaflet

http://www.conservancy.co.uk/assets...de_to_Using_a_Swinging_Mooring-q5HVXv86Yz.pdf

 

[Robert Wilson]

Thank you, I shall investigate.

 

[Daydream believer]

I make most of the mooring strops on our mooring area & have done for the past 13 years. the smaller boats such as sqibs etc usually have 1.5 M long & the cruisers up to 30 ft normally have 2.1 M
The guiding factor is cleat or samson post to fairlead or roller then roller to top of buoy as it sits straight down from the bow. Then allow 150mm for slack to get the loop over the cleat. Some owners like to pull the buoy out of the water a little. Most prefer not to allow the buoy to rub along the side of the boat so keep the strop shorter rather than longer

 

[Robert Wilson]

I make most of the mooring strops on our mooring area & have done for the past 13 years. the smaller boats such as sqibs etc usually have 1.5 M long & the cruisers up to 30 ft normally have 2.1 M
The guiding factor is cleat or samson post to fairlead or roller then roller to top of buoy as it sits straight down from the bow. Then allow 150mm for slack to get the loop over the cleat. Some owners like to pull the buoy out of the water a little. Most prefer not to allow the buoy to rub along the side of the boat so keep the strop shorter rather than longer

Does that not make it fearfully uncomfortable, even putting craft in danger of being inundated, in a good sized chop/seas?
I have always felt that a long warp lets the seas roll under the boat without increasing strain on bow/deck fittings when "holding-up" the riser?

This was an August "blow" from the north; the only direction my mooring is exposed to. (All the way from Iceland!)

 

[Daydream believer]

Does that not make it fearfully uncomfortable, even putting craft in danger of being inundated, in a good sized chop/seas?
I have always felt that a long warp lets the seas roll under the boat without increasing strain on bow/deck fittings when "holding-up" the riser?

Some owners actually like to pull the buoy partially out of the water

 

[Robert Wilson]

I suppose it's a trade-off, then.
Short warp - no buoy rubbing against hull.
Long(er) warp - rides swell more easily/safely.

Looking at Khamsin's rearing/dipping in my pics in #12 I wonder how she would have performed with a ultra short warp holding-up the buoy ?
I watched her from my house for thirty-six hours like that

Any thoughts, before I make-up new warps?

 

[Daydream believer]

I suppose it's a trade-off, then.
Short warp - no buoy rubbing against hull.
Long(er) warp - rides swell more easily/safely.

Looking at Khamsin's rearing/dipping in my pics in #12 I wonder how she would have performed with a ultra short warp holding-up the buoy ?
I watched her from my house for thirty-six hours like that

Any thoughts, before I make-up new warps?

Well with slack lines she is going to jerk against the main mooring a lot. With a constant weight on the mooring it will not jerk but will be a steady pull rather than a sudden snatch as she hits against the main mooring weight.
Personally I would rather ride against the catinary of the main mooring line

 

[lw395]

Well with slack lines she is going to jerk against the main mooring a lot. With a constant weight on the mooring it will not jerk but will be a steady pull rather than a sudden snatch as she hits against the main mooring weight.
Personally I would rather ride against the catinary of the main mooring line

This is what I found when I had a pretty exposed mooring. In wind over tide conditions, or when there was wash from passing commercial vessels etc, any slack between bow and buoy caused terrible snatching as the buoy and the boat did not move together. With no slack, it was a steadier pull.
But it might be different if you had a smaller buoy and lighter riser chain.

Whatever you try, you need to keep an eye on it through the first blows, to check that the motion of the boat is reasonable compared to others, and to go to war on any chafe or other wear and tear.
Also you need to check the mooring is not winding up. Many boats rotate the same way every change of tide, and many swivels are 'not very good'.

 

[Kelpie]

Robert, what is the rest of your mooring made of?
I have 19mm riser chain onto a big fish farm buoy (I tried a normal buoy but it couldn't support the weight of the riser). The mooring itself offers little catenary or any 'give' so I have a fairly long strop. I basically copied what the fishermen do. Yes the buoy can end up scuffing on the hull but that's better than finding my boat on the beach.
No disrespect to the other posters on here but I would advise you look at what experienced locals are using, they will know what works in the conditions.

 

[Robert Wilson]

Robert, what is the rest of your mooring made of?
I have 19mm riser chain onto a big fish farm buoy (I tried a normal buoy but it couldn't support the weight of the riser). The mooring itself offers little catenary or any 'give' so I have a fairly long strop. I basically copied what the fishermen do. Yes the buoy can end up scuffing on the hull but that's better than finding my boat on the beach.
No disrespect to the other posters on here but I would advise you look at what experienced locals are using, they will know what works in the conditions.

Please accept the colours, it's to highlight certain pertinent points.

Good morning Kelpie and all,
Having read all the above posts I have become a little confused and despondent, because it generally seems to be at odds with what I have had for eight years. And so far Khamsin has not ended up on the beach, despite some pretty hairy conditions.

Then along comes Kelpie's post; from a "local" !! Makes sensible reading to copy what the local fishermen do. Thank you.

I have two moorings. One in Loch Ewe and the other in Mill Bay infront of the house (pic #12)
My mooring(s) were supplied and installed by the local professional fish farm maintenance and equipment supply outfit. Each have a massive block on the sea-bed, a very hefty riser chain (mm unquantified, but hefty!), the buoys are ex fish farm supply and the length of the two warps are as shown in my pics in #12.
The Loch Ewe one has two polypropylene warps, the Mill Bay one hefty multi-plait.
I accept, sadly, that one of the buoys, the hard one, sometimes ends up against the hull, the other which has a soft over-cover never does (sod's law!).
So, after all the posts, comments and advice I am inclined to stay with long warps and perhaps a hull-protector on the bows to guard against buoy damage; or even

some form of​

soft protection on the hard buoy. I can't obtain another soft buoy at present.

I thank the OP for asking original question, it has come at a timely moment for me, and perhaps others. I hope OP is helped by the postings above?

Thanks to one and all. I would be interested to hear further comments and ideas if peeps wish to continue the thread.

 

[Graham376]

.........Having read all the above posts I have become a little confused and despondent, because it generally seems to be at odds with what I have had for eight years......Then along comes Kelpie's post; from a "local" !! Makes sensible reading to copy what the local fishermen do. ......Thank you.........I can't obtain another soft buoy at present.....

As Kelpie says, ask the locals. OTOH, you've had no problems for years so why change what works? Soft mooring buoys are off the shelf by post. With a rope riser I'm using the 60" circumference one from here, which is the same size as Polyform A4 but half the price -

http://www.mooringequipment.co.uk/buoys/category/38-inflatable-net-buoy

 

[JumbleDuck]

An excessively long rope will also allow the buoy to rub alongside the hull of the boat and scuff the gel coat. This is often observed and can be reduced by using the correct length of rope as previously described.

I suppose it's a trade-off, then.
Short warp - no buoy rubbing against hull.

Noting that VicS was quoting in his advice ... I don't understand it. How does using a longer warp increase the chance of the buoy rubbing on the hull? I pick up a few visitor moorings every summer, and my invariable experience is that letting out a bit more warp results in the boat setting back, away from the buoy. It could only get closer if the warp went slack, and if that was the case how would pulling in a bit change things?

My home mooring has a heavy chain riser to a large buoy. The strop is attached under the buoy and is, I guess, about 3m long. The boat lies to it with the buoy about 1m ahead.